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    1. Banned
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      09-05-2016 10:07 AM #1
      Can everyone ctfu about it already?! Every review or article I read its like people are clueless to what the benefits are--

      The removal of the DAC (digital to analog converter which significantly reduces the quality of sound) is the best thing that could ever happen and I hope our technical advancements in the near future do away with the 3.5mm jack for good. Have a nice day!

    2. Geriatric Member J-Tim's Avatar
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      09-05-2016 10:51 PM #2
      I am pretty sure the DAC is still going to be there. It's just the analog signal is going to be transferred over lightning adapter, rather than a 3.5mm jack.

      Anyway, I am all for it.
      🍵 🚴 🍲 💤
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      09-06-2016 08:34 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by J-Tim View Post
      I am pretty sure the DAC is still going to be there. It's just the analog signal is going to be transferred over lightning adapter, rather than a 3.5mm jack.

      Anyway, I am all for it.
      The lightening port is a digital connector. The only way you'd be using a dac with the iphone7 is externally. Will they incorporate an amp to boost up the sound levels? Most likely.

      Lower THD/and signal-to-noise-ratio are given, not to mention a better battery consumption with this seamless approach of streaming an audible signal. Oh, and, btw. Motorola is the first to achieve this with the Z Force.

    4. Geriatric Member Hostile's Avatar
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      09-06-2016 09:37 AM #4
      So you made a thread just to whine about other people, at other websites, whining about something?

      And not everyone is an audiophile who cares if they are getting the absolutely greatest sound out of their cell phone. Never mind that any real audiophile wouldn't be using the 3.5mm jack in the first place. They would already be using the thunderbolt connection. The inconvenience and added expense of having to buy new, more expensive, ear buds is lame.
      iain

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      09-06-2016 11:56 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      So you made a thread just to whine about other people, at other websites, whining about something?

      And not everyone is an audiophile who cares if they are getting the absolutely greatest sound out of their cell phone. Never mind that any real audiophile wouldn't be using the 3.5mm jack in the first place. They would already be using the thunderbolt connection. The inconvenience and added expense of having to buy new, more expensive, ear buds is lame.
      Whine? Its called a rant. And Im sure you came in here and learned something today. I also bet you will repeat everything I mentioned the next time this topic comes up amongst your friends. Dude, like, you don't have to buy it if you don't like what they're selling.

    6. Geriatric Member Hostile's Avatar
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      09-06-2016 08:20 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Timmayy View Post
      Whine? Its called a rant. And Im sure you came in here and learned something today. I also bet you will repeat everything I mentioned the next time this topic comes up amongst your friends. Dude, like, you don't have to buy it if you don't like what they're selling.
      The only I learned in this thread is that you think this forum is your facebook wall.
      Last edited by Hostile; 09-06-2016 at 11:45 PM.
      iain

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      09-07-2016 09:31 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      The inconvenience and added expense of having to buy new, more expensive, ear buds is lame.
      But you might get some awesome beats earbuds with your new iPhone....

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      09-07-2016 10:45 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      The only I learned in this thread is that you think this forum is your facebook wall.
      Lol! So you went ahead and edited the part where you called me an arrogant douchebag and a kid. I came outta work and laughed at your comment. I guess you realized how you sound. And maybe I can get like that, but that's neither here nor there.

      Lets talk about the Iphone 7, kay o_O?


      Are you an iphone user? Look at your phone. Tell me what is so great about it- a Sony camera sensor without ois, an LG screen that is barely pushing 1080p resolution on some models. A battery that does Ok because their chipsets are great and optimizes a well rounded UI.

      Iphone users have been emptying their pockets to insane price tags without the hardware. IOS don't even include half the features of the android system (for example split screen functionality, tap-to-wake, etc). And now finally! Finally the 7 is coming with features that is worth the price. A haptic non-push home button. Waterproofing. A much needed high-count optical lens. Even the screen is getting a treating of their True-to-whatever-they-wanna-call-it HDR resolution (the note 7 is first to do it).

      Apple ****ing finally has gone back to their roots. Before the iphone was a phone, it was a credible music player. And people are ignoring everything this new phone is and bitching about the 3.5 jack. They're uping the anty for you by giving you a much better streamlined hardware efficiency and what do people do? Whine about it. Just as you did, Hostile.


      For fuchs sake they are including a lightening to 3.5mm adapter. Oh yeah, and they dropped the price so its now more affordable than ever. I wasn't being an arrogant douche; i have a low tolerance for stupidity. Hence the rant on an Electronic And Gadgets forum about just that. Facebook? Tf, man?

      And if anyone else thinks audiophile grade smartphones are ridiculous, go look at what LG dropped last night with the V20. Go look at the ZTE Axon7. There is a huge market for this scene and an A/V geek like me appreciates it when a company moves tech forward from an 80's jack.
      Last edited by Timmayy; 09-07-2016 at 10:48 AM.

    9. Member DasCC's Avatar
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      09-07-2016 04:02 PM #9
      20 years from now our children and grandchildren will be so baffled that we fought about losing a port that physically tethered our ears to our phones.

      Ya losing port sucks but at least they are providing a free adapter. + this will probably force headphone makers to step up their game on wireless tech.

    10. Member Power5's Avatar
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      09-07-2016 05:25 PM #10
      I hope BT earbuds make a quantum leap in battery life. Well I mean for the sub $15 ear bud iphone users. Sure, $50 and up earbuds have longer life, but the cheapies may last a half marathon if lucky. Also, hope they are introducing some new proprietary adapters for the single port iphones will now have. Or you will be choosing between listening to music on your cheap 3.5mm adapter, or charging the phone. And since apple does not seem to include headphones for american purchasers any more, you will either need to buy the new adapter or throw away your last headphones and buy new ones again. Or have they included them with purchase again? No idea, have not really looked at purchasing an iphone since the 3g I had.

    11. 09-08-2016 03:29 AM #11
      Ugh... I can't bitch about it to my friends because everyone I know already considers it moronic so I'll bitch about it here in this conveniently created thread (not a tech blog because I think half the comments are from Apple sock puppets anyway... and a good portion of the rest would make Jonestown cultists cringe... besides, I would have to sign up).

      You know what's outdated? Guitars. I can't wait for a wonderful future when we can do away with such archaic... yeah, that's what you guys sound like.

      You know what's not antiquated? A headphone jack. Guess what, you can't hear digital. If you put a digital signal in a speaker it would sound like fuzz. You need a DAC. It is more efficient to put the DAC at the source where there is no latency, there is less power demand, etc.

      You want to know something else that's fun? There is no effing bandwidth issue with a 1/8" plug. You can pour out 5600bit uncompressed mega music through them and not lose much at all. In fact, there is no pain point at all. I know everyone is talking about how Apple killed floppies when the fact is that floppies died a natural death around 13 years afterwards. 13 years! That's like saying dinosaurs killed Dean Martin. Yeah, I guess, in a round about way... Apple has done this crap again and again. Remember Firewire? NuBUS? The list goes on. Vast majority of them have been unsuccessful.

      But anyway, about the floppies, they were already a pain point by 1998. Many programs were too big to be installed from them. You couldn't save most photographs on them unless you compressed the heck out of them as jpegs or gifs, etc. etc. CD ROMS were better alternatives in most ways.

      Currently, however, all of the best audio equipment use a variation of the 1/8" to 1/4" jack or the RCA Coaxial jack (TOSlink is mostly an afterthought for many people). This jack is still in use because it still beats the pants off of anything else that is out there. It carries better sound resolution, it has almost zero latency, it is hardened against interference, it is more rugged.

      So there is an adapter: a.) There is no way they are going to pack a chip in that form factor that can beat a DAC sitting on the board or maybe even in the chip die itself (in latency or in quality or even in energy efficiency). b.) it takes up the charging port, so forget about charging it while you listen. c.) adds another thing you have to stick on your headphones that you might lose.

      There are lightning jack headphones: a.) The lightning port is not able to hold onto a cable as strongly as most 1/8" jacks, bad for moving around with them. b.) All jacks have a limited number of insertions and separations before they start to fail. Doubling the number half their life... Considering I have friends who have had their lightning ports fail withing two years, this is not a good thing. c.) All the headphones that are capable of this, well they all suck... Oh you are going to say I haven't heard them so I can't possibly know? Pfft... Yeah... There is a small possibility somewhere, but the fact is that the best headphones out there have taken a lot of time and refinement with 1/8" and 1/4" cables to come this far, there is no way the companies that make them are going to be able to turn around in this short time and do this for this brand new technology (and no Beats can't do it... Their best headphones don't even rate against bargain basement throwaway headphones from most of the manufacturers out there).

      So you are left with Bluetooth, or rather the 'Bluetooth + magic fairy pixie dust(marketing BS)' that Apple is trying to shove down your throat. It doesn't matter which one you pick, they both suck. Why? PHYSICS. Mike drop and a big middle finger to anybody who tries to argue otherwise because that is so stupid it's not even worth the words. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to create a wireless solution that will have the fidelity and lack of latency and robustness of a wired system. Period. Flying cars will never be more efficient than wheeled cars unless you can reverse gravity, this is that kind of absolute.

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      09-08-2016 07:46 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by WhatBlueVW View Post
      Flying cars will never be more efficient than wheeled cars unless you can reverse gravity, this is that kind of absolute.


      pick your mic up

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      09-08-2016 09:24 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by WhatBlueVW View Post
      Ugh... I can't bitch about it to my friends because everyone I know already considers it moronic so I'll bitch about it here in this conveniently created thread (not a tech blog because I think half the comments are from Apple sock puppets anyway... and a good portion of the rest would make Jonestown cultists cringe... besides, I would have to sign up).

      You know what's outdated? Guitars. I can't wait for a wonderful future when we can do away with such archaic... yeah, that's what you guys sound like.

      You know what's not antiquated? A headphone jack. Guess what, you can't hear digital. If you put a digital signal in a speaker it would sound like fuzz. You need a DAC. It is more efficient to put the DAC at the source where there is no latency, there is less power demand, etc.

      You want to know something else that's fun? There is no effing bandwidth issue with a 1/8" plug. You can pour out 5600bit uncompressed mega music through them and not lose much at all. In fact, there is no pain point at all. I know everyone is talking about how Apple killed floppies when the fact is that floppies died a natural death around 13 years afterwards. 13 years! That's like saying dinosaurs killed Dean Martin. Yeah, I guess, in a round about way... Apple has done this crap again and again. Remember Firewire? NuBUS? The list goes on. Vast majority of them have been unsuccessful.

      But anyway, about the floppies, they were already a pain point by 1998. Many programs were too big to be installed from them. You couldn't save most photographs on them unless you compressed the heck out of them as jpegs or gifs, etc. etc. CD ROMS were better alternatives in most ways.

      Currently, however, all of the best audio equipment use a variation of the 1/8" to 1/4" jack or the RCA Coaxial jack (TOSlink is mostly an afterthought for many people). This jack is still in use because it still beats the pants off of anything else that is out there. It carries better sound resolution, it has almost zero latency, it is hardened against interference, it is more rugged.

      So there is an adapter: a.) There is no way they are going to pack a chip in that form factor that can beat a DAC sitting on the board or maybe even in the chip die itself (in latency or in quality or even in energy efficiency). b.) it takes up the charging port, so forget about charging it while you listen. c.) adds another thing you have to stick on your headphones that you might lose.

      There are lightning jack headphones: a.) The lightning port is not able to hold onto a cable as strongly as most 1/8" jacks, bad for moving around with them. b.) All jacks have a limited number of insertions and separations before they start to fail. Doubling the number half their life... Considering I have friends who have had their lightning ports fail withing two years, this is not a good thing. c.) All the headphones that are capable of this, well they all suck... Oh you are going to say I haven't heard them so I can't possibly know? Pfft... Yeah... There is a small possibility somewhere, but the fact is that the best headphones out there have taken a lot of time and refinement with 1/8" and 1/4" cables to come this far, there is no way the companies that make them are going to be able to turn around in this short time and do this for this brand new technology (and no Beats can't do it... Their best headphones don't even rate against bargain basement throwaway headphones from most of the manufacturers out there).

      So you are left with Bluetooth, or rather the 'Bluetooth + magic fairy pixie dust(marketing BS)' that Apple is trying to shove down your throat. It doesn't matter which one you pick, they both suck. Why? PHYSICS. Mike drop and a big middle finger to anybody who tries to argue otherwise because that is so stupid it's not even worth the words. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to create a wireless solution that will have the fidelity and lack of latency and robustness of a wired system. Period. Flying cars will never be more efficient than wheeled cars unless you can reverse gravity, this is that kind of absolute.

      Lol. Smh. You know nothing other than the mainstream general knowledge of hi-fi audio. Your wall-o-text is useless. Anytime you remove a processing item (DAC, equalizer, crossovers, etc) between the source and output, you gain in signal strength, total-harmonic-distortion drops, sig-to-noise ratio heightens-- which translates to greater sound quality.


      A digital stream will always outshine an analog one no matter what th application. That, is absolute, my friend.

    14. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      09-08-2016 09:41 AM #14
      This is basically a rehash of when Apple got rid of the floppy drive, or when they switched to the Lightning connector, or when they got rid of the optical drive...

      There's a vocal minority that makes a big deal out of it and then a few months down the road no one cares. People also like to think that Apple makes these kinds of breaking changes frequently but that isn't true either.

    15. 09-08-2016 10:16 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post


      pick your mic up
      Far far less efficient than a trike with a sail.



      My mike is fine where it is.

    16. 09-08-2016 10:19 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      This is basically a rehash of when Apple got rid of the floppy drive, or when they switched to the Lightning connector, or when they got rid of the optical drive...
      Like I said, the industry didn't follow Apple in getting rid of the floppy. In fact, every Apple I saw for while had one of those candy colored third party USB floppy drives stuck on it. Apple didn't lead the way on that.

      Oh and BTW I never complained about the lightning connector. The previous connector was dumb and totally crappy vs the micro usb on the android side. The newer one was better than micro usb. Now usb c has leapfrogged lightning, that's just normal evolution.

      Also, I never complained about the lack of optical drives on laptops either. Taking it off saves weight and that's important in a laptop. I don't complain unless it's a step backward. The floppy debacle was a step backwards (but most people just sucked it up and got an external), that righted itself many years later when floppies died a natural death (it was one of the longest lived media technology) no thanks to Apple (more because of USB flash drives and rewritable CD/DVD/etc.). In fact the dream of no physical removable media that Jobs had when he removed the floppy died quicker than the floppy did and is now a faint flicker of a distant memory.
      Last edited by WhatBlueVW; 09-08-2016 at 10:44 AM.

    17. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      09-08-2016 10:21 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      This is basically a rehash of when Apple got rid of the floppy drive, or when they switched to the Lightning connector, or when they got rid of the optical drive...

      There's a vocal minority that makes a big deal out of it and then a few months down the road no one cares. People also like to think that Apple makes these kinds of breaking changes frequently but that isn't true either.
      You are probably right, but I'm still salty about it.

    18. 09-08-2016 10:24 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Timmayy View Post
      Lol. Smh. You know nothing other than the mainstream general knowledge of hi-fi audio. Your wall-o-text is useless. Anytime you remove a processing item (DAC, equalizer, crossovers, etc) between the source and output, you gain in signal strength, total-harmonic-distortion drops, sig-to-noise ratio heightens-- which translates to greater sound quality.


      A digital stream will always outshine an analog one no matter what th application. That, is absolute, my friend.
      Total BS. Sure if you are turning from digital back to analog and then back to digital and then back to analog. You don't have that at all. You have the digital source with a DAC outputting analog drive current for the speakers. Guess what, you have the exact same thing in iPhone, except now you have removed it from the mainboard where it is more efficient and put it in either the headphones or the adapter where it is less efficient. You added components to your stream.

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      09-08-2016 11:05 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by WhatBlueVW View Post
      Total BS. Sure if you are turning from digital back to analog and then back to digital and then back to analog. You don't have that at all. You have the digital source with a DAC outputting analog drive current for the speakers. Guess what, you have the exact same thing in iPhone, except now you have removed it from the mainboard where it is more efficient and put it in either the headphones or the adapter where it is less efficient. You added components to your stream.
      Dude. Are you trolling right now? The included adapter is digital/lightening and the 3.5mm side of it is still maintaining a digital signal/output without a dac. There is no dac in the adapter or in the headphones! JackieChan.jpg.

      And yes the adapter is a "weak link" but id rather opt for a cheap solid state link than a dac from god-knows-what-Chinese)manufacturer. Please don't go back ob firth with me on this. Go study or something... Like... What Is in the airpods is an accelerometer which is kinda cool.

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      09-08-2016 11:25 AM #20
      FWIW- if anyone thinks i've jumped ship from android to ios just because of a simple implementation like audio playback via lightening cable, I can assure you I am not. Before the iphone7 was released yesterday, the LGV20 was shown the night before. It has four ESS (if you know the name, you know that their entry into the smartphone world is a true game changer) dacs carrying the dosage for a music lover like me. From white noise reduction to a wider array of bandwidth reproduction, I was already swaying in that direction.

      A 5 min phone call from wifey, who's willing to wait for the new batch of note 7's (she really needs that S pen for fashion design work) and my response was "well if you're not willing to change an become an iphone person, the hell I am!"

      #imkindarelieved

    21. 09-08-2016 11:39 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Timmayy View Post
      Dude. Are you trolling right now? The included adapter is digital/lightening and the 3.5mm side of it is still maintaining a digital signal/output without a dac. There is no dac in the adapter or in the headphones! JackieChan.jpg.
      Then it's not a digital signal. Plain and simple. It's an analog signal and you have bought the marketing hype hook line and sinker. Get this through your head, you aren't built to hear digital signal. It sounds like fuzz. To turn it into something you can hear, it has to be turned into analog. It's either happening at the chip or board or in the headphones, and anything that is doing it is a Digital Analog Converter.

      If it's an analog signal it's stupid to output through the lightening jack rather than the more robust 1/8" jack. Plain and simple.

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      09-08-2016 12:31 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by WhatBlueVW View Post
      Then it's not a digital signal. Plain and simple. It's an analog signal and you have bought the marketing hype hook line and sinker. Get this through your head, you aren't built to hear digital signal. It sounds like fuzz. To turn it into something you can hear, it has to be turned into analog. It's either happening at the chip or board or in the headphones, and anything that is doing it is a Digital Analog Converter.

      If it's an analog signal it's stupid to output through the lightening jack rather than the more robust 1/8" jack. Plain and simple.
      Yes. It is an analog signal as long as there is a 3.5 jack is in link. I just checked it out and the iPhone is processing everything digitally from the Chipset all the way to the lightening connector on the bottom end. YOU aren't getting the idea behind them ditching the 3.5mm jack. The line adapter included seems like it is optical at one point. And the point is- the 3.5mm adapter is the weakest link here and is added for YOUR convenience. Without it you are getting a thorough digital Hi-Fi signal.

      Do your research. Even companies like Intel is trying to ditch the analog jack with usb-c.

    23. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      09-08-2016 12:57 PM #23
      The other thread got closed so I'll quote myself here...

      I'll be happy to upgrade my 6 to a 6S plus next year and hang onto both as long as I can. Though I'm a bit salty about losing the headphone jack, that's not the only reason. The current phones really do every single thing as fast and smartly as I want them too, I don't require more and more "computing power' from my phone. I want to get to a bigger screen for my old eyes but that's about it.

      I'll let future-Dave worry about the time I actually "need" a new-age, no headphone-jack, cell phone.

    24. 09-08-2016 01:08 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Timmayy View Post
      Yes. It is an analog signal as long as there is a 3.5 jack is in link. I just checked it out and the iPhone is processing everything digitally from the Chipset all the way to the lightening connector on the bottom end. YOU aren't getting the idea behind them ditching the 3.5mm jack. The line adapter included seems like it is optical at one point. And the point is- the 3.5mm adapter is the weakest link here and is added for YOUR convenience. Without it you are getting a thorough digital Hi-Fi signal.

      Do your research. Even companies like Intel is trying to ditch the analog jack with usb-c.
      Good God... this is degenerating into gobbledygook... digital Hi-Fi signal? seems like it is optical at one point?

      Is it analog or is it digital? If it is analog, then you are putting it through a port that is not as well suited for it as a 1/8" jack. There are plenty of HiFi audiophile gear that can work with a 1/8" jack (more that work through a 1/4", but still a significant percentage that can use a 1/8"). There are things Apple could have done like push for a shorter tip and sleeve with a sleeve base lock along with the tip lock (less lateral force transmitted, less space taken inside phone, but still get the 360 rotatability and the strong lock in along with the higher throughput of higher gauge wires). That would have been an innovation. It would have made people unhappy that they are locked into Apple approved headphones maybe, but I wouldn't have complained because that's actually moving things forward.

      If it is digital, then DAC DAC DAC DAC DAC. No getting around it. You cannot hear digital. I don't care it it's HiFi digital or optical digital . It still sounds like white noise until it goes through a DAC.
      Last edited by WhatBlueVW; 09-08-2016 at 01:10 PM.

    25. Member KeiCar's Avatar
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      09-08-2016 01:14 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Timmayy View Post
      Dude. Are you trolling right now? The included adapter is digital/lightening and the 3.5mm side of it is still maintaining a digital signal/output without a dac. There is no dac in the adapter or in the headphones! JackieChan.jpg.

      And yes the adapter is a "weak link" but id rather opt for a cheap solid state link than a dac from god-knows-what-Chinese)manufacturer. Please don't go back ob firth with me on this. Go study or something... Like... What Is in the airpods is an accelerometer which is kinda cool.

      Dude are YOU trolling. There HAS to be a DAC somewhere within the line between the software playing the music file to whatever is translating that into sound going into your ears. There can't NOT be an analogue component.



      and to lighten the mood a bit.... you two are tense!

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