- 2007 VW Passat Engine Swap - 2.5L for 2.0T
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    1. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 7th, 2009
      Thunder Bay, Canada
      2003 TDI Jetta Wagon, 2004 Golf R32
      02-07-2017 01:03 PM #26
      I used ELSAWin to get the diagrams. Give me the Engine Codes and VINs of the cars you are using and I can get the correct wiring diagrams.

    2. 02-08-2017 08:56 AM #27
      Dorkage, the VIN number of my 2007 VW Passat is: WVWLK73C97E009332 ... the engine code for the original 2.0T engine is: BPY. I'll have to see if I can get the VIN number for the 2008 Jetta that the ECU and/or engine came out of ... but the engine code for the Jetta 2.5L is: CBU.

      Low_passat had emailed me a PDF wiring diagram for the 2007 Passat 2.0T ... and I've already got all of the chassis ECU pin locations / colors ... and I've verified that they do correspond with my car ... so I've got that.

      I really just need the diagrams for the 2008 2.5 Jetta.

      I'm supposed to get my Bentley Manual today.

    3. 02-19-2017 05:40 PM #28
      Well, I'm about ready to get back to this project. I've got all the wiring diagrams that I need ... it's just a matter of sorting them out and matching up the wires ... on paper first. I discovered (from the Bentley Manual) that I DO in fact have the T121 plug on the 2008 Jetta ECU.

      All the VW ECU's have two plugs ... a chassis wiring harness plug, and an engine wiring harness plug. On the 2007 Passat ... the chassis plug is a 94-pin plug, hence it's labeled T94 ... the engine wiring harness plug is a 60-pin plug, hence it's labeled T60. But the smaller plugs on the 2008-09 Jetta they label ALL as T121 ... with 121 pins COMBINED for both chassis side and engine side. The chassis harness side consists of pins 1 through 81 ... the engine harness side consists of pins 82 through 121.

      While I've had to work on other projects lately, I've had time to sort out the wiring on paper at home. I also sent my ECU off to have the immobilizer disabled ... they did it the same day the received it, and sent it back to me.

      The company from eBay that did the ECU work is VARParts and they specialize in VW / Audi custom parts, servicing, and restoration. Not sure where they're located, but their phone number is:857-540-5060.

      I hope to get back to the wiring by the end of this week or next ... I'll keep you posted.

    4. 03-20-2017 08:47 PM #29
      Well, I'm finally (REALLY) getting back to this project. After a Hyundai Tiburon engine replacement and a Saturn VUE transmission replacement.

      Since I last posted here, while I've been working on other cars ... I've been studying wiring diagrams at home ... LOTS of them!

      The engine harness was simple ... I used the 2008 Jetta harness that came with the engine. For the chassis harness connections, I used Bentley wiring diagrams and Excel and mapped out all of the pin-outs and wires colors for both my existing 2007 Passat 2.0t chassis harness ... and the 2008 Jetta 2.5 chassis harness plug that I was going to graft on. I matched up all the functions, and what wires need to be spliced with what wires. Then I actually checked the Passat chassis plug and the Jetta chassis plug to verify that the wire colors and pin numbers were correct (I've discovered that wiring digrams are not always correct!). Doing one wire at a time, I've got the Jetta plug spliced onto the Passat harness. I finished that up last week.

      I've discovered that there are quite a few wiring differences between the 2.0t and 2.5 cars. For example, the 2007 Passat 2.0t uses no relays to energize the fuel pump, (it uses what's called a Fuel Pump Control Module) nor does it have a return-to-tank fuel system! The result is, I get 90 PSI fuel pressure at the engine! I had to take a trip to the local Pull-a-Part and purchase a fuel pump with both pressure and return lines, a 4.0 Bar (58 PSI) fuel pressure regulator, the J17 and J643 under-dash relay system for the fuel pump ... and ... oh yes ... a 2.5 trunk emblem from a 2004 Nissan Maxima (they're BIGGER than the VW ones!). I trashed the 2.0t emblem.

      I've yet to install the Jetta fuel pump and pressure regulator though ... I'm still running 90 PSI.

      The other odd thing is ... the dual fuel pump relays cause the fuel pump to run ... when you open the driver's door! (to prime the system I presume).

      Got everything wired up the end of last week ... and tried to start it ... NOTHING! After some extensive checking, I found that I had no check-engine light during starting ... a sure sign of ECU issues (yes, the one I paid $60 to have the immobilizer disabled - although I don't think it's anything he did - it may be something I did). After going over all of the wiring extensively (again) I purchased another ECU from the same Pull-a-Part Jetta and installed it. I now had a check-engine light!

      THE CAR STARTS UP! (but obviously quickly dies because of the immobilizer).

      I may just take the car to the local VW dealer and have them program the ECU Immobilizer ... but first I've got to modify the existing fuel system with the Jetta regulator and fuel pump ... I should only have 58 PSI at the engine. The Passat also uses two ECU relays for some reason, J271 and J670 ... probably because the turbo engine had so many other electrical parts ... electric coolant pump, HPFP, wastegate bypass valve, etc. I've got to verify that I actually need the J670 relay, and what it actually drives.

      Once I've double and triple checked everything (I'm still not sure the fuel pump is wired properly) ... I'll reinstall the ECU and take it to the dealer.

      After this project, I can see I'm going to have to get some computer software to read this new computerized stuff now-a-days.

      My goal with this project is to have EVERYTHING work in the car just like from the factory ... with NO check-engine lights. This is obviously turning into a LOT more than I was expecting!

      I REALLY am hoping to get this car where I can actually DRIVE it before the end of the month (of course I said that a month ago too)!

      I'll keep you all posted!

    5. Member jddaigle's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 30th, 2003
      Denver, CO
      2008 Passat Wagon VR6 4motion, 2013 FIAT 500 Sport
      03-21-2017 09:39 AM #30
      I admire the commitment! Sounds like your on the home stretch.
      - Jeff
      B6 Passat 3.6 & 4motion Resource Thread
      Now: 2008 VW Passat 3.6 4motion Wagon, 2013 Fiat 500 Sport
      Then: 1987 Volvo 745GLE, 1989 Volvo 740GL, 1994 Volvo 940T, 1995 Infiniti G20, 2000 VW Passat 1.8T, 2001 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Ed (x2), 2004 VW Golf TDI, 2006 Jetta TDI

    6. 03-31-2017 07:16 PM #31
      I usually browse but i had to join to post this! Ths effort is VY usefull! TY & Kudos. Am awaiting any wiring crossover diagrams you post to adapt the diffrent parts and such.

      Just had our 08 Passat with its 2.0T CCTA do the dreaded timing thing and throw a valve, Ugh! ruined engine! Getting a replacement is way too expensive, HOWEVER swapping in a 2.5L IS the answer if I keep it! bcs the 2.5's are way more reliable for a DD wout the 2.0T probs as we've found out AND so way more affordable! So I am going to be duplicating this effort prob as the year warms up. Also I called your ECU guy, very nice and knowledgaable and local to me, TY. He reccm getting the ECU and the instrument cluster and key cylinder and keys with teh engine. Also, after this happened, i googled and joined another class action lawsuit against VW who's failed to fix the dreaded cam chain tensioner issue for years and this option is open to anyone who experiences this issue as well, just google it..

    7. Member pastacor's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 8th, 2015
      Charlottesville, VA
      '08 Passat Komfort Wagon
      04-01-2017 01:12 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Bill6211789 View Post
      This is a very interesting idea but if you're able to do this much the "dreaded hpfp issue" is somthing you could take care of very easily by adding it to your regular maintenance the cam follower is all that fails and it takes 30min to an hr max to replace every 15-20k miles.

      If you just drop in a 2.0t with an undamaged head/hpfp/cam you'd not need to worry about all the other coding and fixes.

      Again, the swap is a cool idea but seems like an awful lot of work for somthing that is easily preventable with a bit of knowledge on the 2.0t fsi issues.

      Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
      Mine was trashed when I bought my car, but didn't know about the issue. Luckily I had a service contract that covered the entire fix. Now I change the cam follower once a year as it's easier than tracking milage. Also switched the bolts on the HPFP to studs as apparently removing them can slowly strip the threads in the aluminum housing.

      Great thread! I'm not terribly familar with the 2.5L.
      Last edited by pastacor; 04-01-2017 at 01:20 PM.
      2008 Grey Passat Komfort Wagon - 2.0T FSI

    8. 04-02-2017 05:37 PM #33
      Yes, pastacor and pgats ... the 2.0t HPFP issue isn't just an occasional headache in my opinion ... I believe it's a basic design flaw with the 2.0t FSI engine. In spite of replacing cam followers, updated VW cams, changing oil regularly, etc, etc, etc ... it seems like a reoccurring problem. That's why I didn't want to mess with it ... plus the extreme expense.

      Apparently, just the physical mechanical pressure between the parts is simply too much ... no matter what fix you do. Even if you replace the follower, you're eventually going to destroy the cam lobe. They've remedied this apparently on the newer 2.0t TSI engine by going to a 4-lobe cam instead of 3-lobe for the HPFP. But I've heard that even the 2.0t TSI has other issues (just as you mentioned pgats ... I assume yours is a TSI).

      I don't mind buying cars with basic design flaws ... providing there's a way to remedy the problem permanently.

      I've fixed a few Pontiac Vibes with the Toyota 1.8L engine that had problems with oil consumption and hence, engine failure if you didn't keep an eye on oil levels. The junk yards are full of these failed Toyota engines. The problem was caused by piston rings sticking in the groves because of carbon build up, but also because Toyota decided to reduce spring pressure of the rings against the cylinder walls (with their 1ZZ-FE and 2ZZ-GE engines) ... why? ... to reduce friction and increase fuel mileage.

      The fix was to drill out the oil return holes in the pistons, clean out the ring groves, and switch to a good brand of after-market piston ring that had normal spring pressure. Voila, the problem was solved! But I've heard of no (cheap) fix for the 2.0t FSI problem (I even looked for a high pressure ELECTRIC fuel pump ... but no dice).

      I really do hope to have the car running this week. I've installed a 2007 Jetta 2.5L fuel pump ($25 from my local Pull-a-Part and it bolts right in) along with the 4.0 bar pressure regulator ... now I've got the required 58 PSI at the engine. I've got a couple engine codes that I've got to sort out (rear 02 sensor, IAT sensor, and the Leak Detection Pump aren't working) ... but nothing that will keep the engine from running. I should have read the codes from this car before I took it apart to determine what issues were already present.

      Pgats, the only problem with getting the key cylinder and immobilized from the Jetta is ... they use a normal key ... not like the Passat. So I don't know what would be involved in switching that all out. Plus the Passat doesn't even have keyed door locks.

      I've tried to use as much from the Passat as I could ... the instrument cluster, the ignition switch, the starter, the alternator, electronic accelerator pedal, exhaust system from the down pipe back with 02 sensor, the AT drive plate and torque converter, and even the transmission oil cooler located in front of the battery. We'll see how all that stuff works out once I can actually put some miles on the car.

      By the way, if you pick up a 2.5L 5 Cyl. engine ... make sure it's maybe 2007 or later, I've heard that the early ones sometimes had timing chain issues when they began to rack up the miles. (although some believe that may be due to engine sludge and not changing the oil regularly).

      I'll keep you posted hopefully later this week.

    9. 04-10-2017 01:39 PM #34
      OK TY
      Pls post your wiring crossover diagrams if you can.

      What part of the country are you located in?

      Appreciate all the feedback.

      To add to this for anyone who gets into same mess with this engine, yes it is a TSI that was kept up meticulously.
      After googling around quite a bit, after the failure occured, it turns out that anyone who has this problem can join the class action, just find your closest attorneys that are involved in this, there are quite a few even if this matter hasn't received as much press as the TDi recall. Incidentally we did have a 2010 TDI Jetta that we luckily sold back to the dealer as well in that recall, so the legal process does work given patience.

      Now as far as replacing the failed engine with SAME engine, JUST as you pointed out, it doesnt make sense, both from economic as well as longetivity-expected continued reliability perspective from how it looks to me. They are exceedingly expensive because of the demand AND it JUST makes sense to get a much more dependale 2.5 at a much more reasonable cost. teh problem is the swap details as being depicted in this very valuable thread, IMHO ..

      As far as a later than 2007 2.5, yes again just as you pointed out, from the forums and from talking to local VW-Audi folk, i have found that the earlier 2.5 did have some problems with the timing chains as well so the 2007+ are the way to go when seeking a replacement and these can easily be found for less than a thou at many local salvage yards.

      Pls let us know how this is proceeding , TY

    10. 04-11-2017 08:08 PM #35
      Right pgats, I was told today by a local shop that deals in modified VW's only, that the 2.5 5-cyl. is usually not even considered by most VW performance enthusiasts ... most would much rather have the 1.8t and 2.0t engines. For that reason the 2.5's are fairly cheap. I purchased my 2010 2.5L engine with 70,000 mi. for $50! ... although it had no intake, throttle body, or accessories!

      Yesterday I found out that the VW dealer cannot program the immobilizer either ... so their mechanic sent me to a place 20 minutes from me in Akron called "Haus of Dub" ... the guy says they do all kinds of engine swaps (they're putting a 2.5L 5-cyl. into an late 1990's Audi right now). He said he can disable the immobilizer, he's done quite a few of them.

      I went to him because he's local ... and I just want to get this car running!

      I've also been communicating with Doug at "Varpartsma" from Andover, Massachusetts ... (they did the immobilizer delete on the first ECU that turned out to be "dead") ... I really don't think it's anything they did, and if the guy in Akron fails to be able to do it, I'll send both the second ECU and the original ECU back to Varpartsma to check them out and possibly find the problem.

      While I was at the VW dealership, I asked them about the 12-year rust-through warranty (I didn't know about it when I replaced the rusted hood and drivers front fender). Whenever I get it running and sorted out, I'll take it back to them to have them assess it to see if my car qualifies.

      And yes, when I get this car all done (and working correctly) I'll post all the details of the parts I used, and the wiring diagrams and modifications.

      I'll keep you posted.

    11. 04-14-2017 09:04 PM #36
      well today i found some info that unfortunately for myself and living in the state i am in, .. kinda kills my possibility of doing a 2.5L swap into my failed 08 Passat, It comes down to legalities and emmisions in my state, not the functionality.

      Some backgound. In state of MA, we have a 15 yr emmisions waiver, so in present year, 2002 and earlier, vehicles get a safety inspection (like our 01 A4 B5 Audi, our 02 Jetta ALH TDi at 300k mi and still going strong, and our 94 Yota 4WD Pickup) . If a Check Eng lite is on and it is emmisions related the car still gets stickered, anotherwords it passes inspection for the coming year and the owner gets to drive it legally according to our RMV (it's called here the Registry of Motor Vehicles, not the more commonly referred to as the DMV).

      IF you have an emmisions related failure in a vehicle that is newer tahn 2002 and to get an annual exemption (exemptions are only good for the year and the following year have to be re-applied for yet again) to that you have to go thru an exemption procedure which is very difficult and near impossible according to my own direct experience with my previous 2010 Jetta TDi that ended up getting bought back by dealer with the whole diesel recall mess.

      Well before starting down my intended route of this intended swap i pre-emptively called the contact i had made within the RMV procedural world, (during my 2010 TDi Jetta attempt to get a temp-annual RMV inspection exemption), to get their official take on this intended swap in my state. The verdict: "NON-compliant drive train" which puts the cabosh on this at "this" time.

      More details: The car WOULD (initially) pass inspection at any inspection station as long as NO check engine lite was lit AND as long as the ECU matched the chassis VIN, that's all doable and with the resources posted in this thread, HOWEVER after that, upon review the state computerized system would catch it and flag it and the owner (me) would receive a nice letter in the mail telling me i have an UNsupported and NON compliant drivetrain the in the vehicle and thus I would be notified to take it off the road or have the registration cancelled on me and to turn in my plates.

      My choices:

      1.) Wait 6 more years & hang on to the car until after the car merits its own 15 yr lookback emmisions exmption bcs it'll be more than 15 yrs old then AND at that time, swap in any engine i like bcs it'll no longer be scrutinized nor flagged

      2.) Swap in a supported Drivetrain, these Passats also came with the 3.6L 6cyl which IS a supported drivetrain, i looked at swapping in a 3.6L 6 cyl (prefer it over a 2.0t for reliability sakes) and even reached out to Haus of Dub since you mentioned they do all types of swaps, and Andy promptly replied that it was possible indeed, BUT here are the exact words:

      "The 3.6 VR6 has its own bolt pattern. the VR6 has been that way since 1991...and always had its own transmissions. 2.2 10v, 2.8 12v, 2.8 24v, 3.2 24v and the 3.6 24v. All the other engines i4, i5, v6, v8, v10 share are similar with subtle difference, but mostly interchangeable.

      to swap the 3.6 into that 2.0t car would need the full engine harness/ecu/exhaust/cooling system."

      Thsi was very usefull knowledge, and i am gratefull to both you and Andy, however due to the extent of the work, for me is unfeasible. and also needing a donor vehicle, the 3.6L themselves are half the cost of the 2.0t engines tho (around here the 3.6L used lomileage are like $1400) , but JUST the engines themselves, here we are talking abotu a whole donor vehicle..

      3.) Rather than swapping in the above 3.6 6cyl, IF i elect to fix the car put in a direct replacement 2.0t, so back to square 1 yet again.
      Feel like those bumper car toys that get sent back to the beggining time & again.

      So do i keep the car? .. Well to be part of this current VW class action (with the blown engine due to the cam chain tensioner defect), which i signed up for with my most local attorney that is representing the eastern MA state plaintiffs, SOBRAN LAW in Hingham, MA (Thomas P Sobran in Hingham, MA if anyone needs to also sign up), I have to be in possesion of the car to be a participant. Now weighing my former experience when VW did buy back our last VW, I'd say its a pretty good bet, SO do i now keep the car as a driveway ornament or have it as a driveable car for the foreseeaable future?

      If I want to make it a driveable car and keep it on the road for next few years it looks like the 2.0t swap in yet again is the most feasible route, even though I do not like this engine as mentioned prior.

      I am looking at NOT getting a used engine at between 2500-3000+plus (these pwesly 2.0t 's they go for a premium around here) and have contacted instead in CA, their NEW 2.0t longblocks are $2500 with out the $300 core and the $350 or so in freight.

      I am still pondering teh possibilities though and may opt to just keep my new "driveway ornament" for now though .. Info for all here ..

    12. 04-16-2017 07:11 PM #37
      Wow, leave it to "big brother" to quench the American "engine swapping spirit"! Sure glad I live where I do, they have no such crazy laws around here.

      "Common sense" (of which the government usually possesses very little of) would tell you that ... they SHOULD allow a car to be legally licensed and driven, providing it meets the emissions requirements for that year vehicle (which I believe a 2.5L powered Passat WOULD). But alas .. that would be "common sense"!

      pgats, I would check into that whole thing some more ... there's GOT to be some type of waiver or something for those types of vehicles. I'm sure there are TONS of modified Porsche's, Corvettes, big-block Nova's, dune buggies, and Mustangs on the roads there ... legally. When I've talked to the local BMV here in Ohio I've found ... if you talk to three different people ... you'll get three different answers!

      I still haven't heard anything from Haus of Dub about the "Immobilizer disable" on my ECU ... for some reason, this apparently is a tough one! If he can't do it for some reason, Doug at Varpartsma told me to send him back the original ECU and the ECU that will start the car, and he'll look into it. That may be the route I'll have to go.

      On a good note ... I just sold the remaining 2.0t FSI engine parts on Craigslist. I ended up getting a total of about $700 for all the parts. In my opinion that's pretty good for a blown up engine ... with a junk head and junk cams and junk oil pump! I only paid $600 for the whole car!

      I should have titled this thread "The Immobilizer from Hell"!

      It's really frustrating to have a car completely done ... AND running ... and yet not be able to drive it! I would bet my bottom dollar that Immobilizers have thwarted legitimate owners FAR more times (and cost them FAR more $$$$$), because of replacement ECU's, batteries going completely dead (I've heard that can activate an immobilizer), or other such electrical gremlins ... than they have thwarted REAL car thieves!

      I promise you, one way or another (with the Lord's help), I'll get this car running!

    13. 04-17-2017 10:40 AM #38
      hi again and yes, pls do keep us up as you make progress on that final issue.

      Ok, some updates on the NON common sense of the political beauracracy in my state in these matters, and BTW, very well put..
      About our so called, RMV, yes you are correct. I called the person i did bcs he heads the most local to me exemption inspection station, in other words, if you take your vehicle to an inspection station and it fails.. well, let me cut-paste soem excerpts,

      If you have made repairs to your private passenger vehicle or OBD-equipped mobile home and it still failed its emissions and smog check, you may be eligible to apply for a waiver. here is a "brief excerpt" from this state's "political beauracracy that reigns in our state" in this matter:

      Pertaining to Waivers, i have extracted this:

      Repairs had to have been made by a registered emissions repair technician.
      The repair costs, including materials and labor, must meet the following threshold:
      Vehicles 5 years old and newer: $880.
      Vehicles 6 to 10 years old: $780.
      Vehicles 10 years old and older: $680.
      The emissions control system on your vehicle must be intact and free of any evidence of tampering.
      Your vehicle must have successfully completed its safety inspection within the last 60 days.
      The OBD system, or on-board computer, on your vehicle must:
      Successfully connect and communicate with the station's computer.
      Have completed its own self-checks of your vehicle's emissions control system.
      Not have any diagnostic code troubles showing, including for catalytic converter failure, engine misfire, or energy storage (hybrid vehicles only).

      To apply for a smog and emissions testing waiver, you must do the following:
      Schedule an appointment to complete an evaluation with the "Motorist Assistance Center" MAC (you must be pre-qualified based on the requirements listed above before an appointment will be set).
      Bring all required documents as described in the eligibility section above to your appointment.
      If you are APPROVED for a waiver, you will be given a waiver authorization so that you can receive an inspection sticker from the station that previously failed your vehicle.
      If you are NOT approved for a waiver, MAC officials will advise you of your options. Your registration may be suspended by the Massachusetts RMV if you have not been approved for an emissions waiver or successfully completed a retest within 60 days of failing your initial inspection.

      Ok, NOW the MAC people it mentions hold the last and deffinitive decision on whom gets to "keep driving" so to speak. Since i already had an established relationship with my top most level MAC official, as mentioned above, taht's whom i turned to, to try and skip all the previous steps, bcs that's whomm would most likely be assigned to my case.

      ALso, they were the ones (The MAC center closest to me) that denied me the waiver on the 2010 VW TDi (that we turned back into teh dealer at the end of taht recall thing for us) altho our applied for exemption in that case was more than legitimate and i had qualaified thru all their tests. I got in the middle of a finger pointing session between my state MAC inpsection RMV and VW the mfr.. Like they said, it sounds good on paper but it's very very difficult to actually get the waiver granted altho it's only for a single year and then you go thru their whole thing all over again the next year..

      NOW, on the practical side, yes you are correct there are tons of swaps on the road, either 15 yrs old vehicles or more than that, in which case anything goes as long as the safety inpsection passes, OR if newer than the 15yr threshold AND IF "non compliant" as defined by the state's RMV inpsection steps, then they were not caught by the state's post inpsection review (flagged on post screening). Like the RMV MAC contact person told me is taht upon post swap, my 08 Passat would most likely pass the emmisions as long as it passed teh OBD based emmisions requirements and there were no check engine lites lit, that fine, HOWEVER, it wouldnt be flagged until their post review until after the inspection approved sticker had already been granted, another words, i'd be on the road and happily using the car as one of our fam's DD's and we'd receive a "nice notification" from our RMV.. not a nice approach to follow fr what i am getting.. Now practically speaking i know of at least 1 person that flunked the state inspection (passed the safety, flunked the emmisions) and still drives well past their 60day correction period and still has their rejection sticker from last year, no letters received from teh state, however if tehy ever get pulled over they automatically get a fine for expired sticker and get this, a parking clerk (meter person) in any municipality now scans their inspection sticker if they are ever even legally parked in a public street or municipal parking lot, even if tehre's money left in teh meter, they get ticketed for expired sticker from the meter person, meaning you cant leave it parked (even legally) on public streets or lots that the meter people patrol.. which is quite a few living in a dense urban area like around here.. It gets ot be a mess and the best thing is to pass the inspection legally every year, one of the reasons i like having older vehicles that only require a safety inspection to pass..

      Well, like i said, i am still mulling this over, however it just doesnt make economic sense for me to spend the money (quite a bit for tehse 2.0t type engines) to put in the same "defective" engine OR take a chance to put in a drivetrain that i may not be able to drive legally based on my loopy state's RMV inspection requirements until this vehicle reaches its automatic exemtiption period in 2023 (6yrs away, too long). Since i'm now enrolled in this class action, and in order to stay enrolled i have to leaglly own the vehicle (in watever condition, even in non repaired condition, meaning driveway ornament), i may opt to just keep it parked and see what happenes on the legal side, like with our 2010, altho we were always driving our 2010..

      On teh ECU side, i wonder what has to be done on the programming side to have the ECU report a 2.5 as a 2.0 (or as a 6cyl), another words compliant drivetrains, however i imagine that's getting into risky territory, leagl wise, sh some legal-eagle fr teh state's RMV ever decide to bud in so to speak..

      Very interested in how this turns out on the functionality side nontheless.

    14. 05-09-2017 10:44 PM #39
      Well. I just got my ECU back from Varpartsma yesterday (I had sent him another 2008-9 ECU plus the original bad one). He said the first one was definitely bad (he sent me a VCDS screenshot) ... but at this point, there's no determination of WHY it's bad. He was able to successfully disable the immobilizer in the second ECU ... and he didn't charge me anything! Doug is a great guy to work with!

      I decided to purchase a 2008-9 2.5 Jetta ECU since there was a HP increase for the 2.5L 5-cyl. in 2008 (2005-07 were 150HP - 2008-on were 170HP). Although I don't know how much of that HP increase was ECU, and how much was engine changes. Also, my engine and engine wiring harness are 2010. The ECU I was using before was from a 2007 2.5L Jetta (Haus of Dub has it, I haven't heard from him yet). That's why I was getting a P0098 code (Air Intake Temp Sensor). The IAT was relocated and combined with the MAF in 2008 and later 2.5's... That code went away with the 2008 ECU.

      If you're going to try this swap, I would recommend a 2008-10 Jetta 2.5L engine, ECU, and engine harness.

      I installed it in the car today and ... IT RUNS! ... but ... there are other problems. More about that later.

      The engine runs fine, I let it warm up to 195 degrees, I checked for oil / coolant / fuel leaks, everything looked good ... I let it run for about 1/2 hour. There are only two codes related to the engine; P0036 downstream 02 sensor, and P2400 Leak Detection Pump ... minor items. I deal with them later.

      So, I've at least established that ...

      1. The Passat 2.0T electronic accelerator peddle works fine with the Jetta 2.5 ECU
      2. The Passat 2.0T starter and alternator work fine with the 2.5L engine
      3. The 2007 Jetta fuel pump and pressure regulator work fine
      4. My fuel pump wiring and Secondary Air Pump wiring seem to be fine
      5. My wiring for the ECU seems to be fine (Although I'll have to check the Leak Detection Pump and Downstream O2 Sensor connections)

      The engine is nice and quiet too!

      The primary problem now is ... I have no transmission! What I mean to say is, I put it in Drive and Reverse ... NOTHING! It also set a P0864 Code (Transmission Control Module Communication Circuit Range/Performance). I had purchased another TCM at Pull-a-Part from another 2007 VW Passat about a month ago, just for a spare ($25) ... I tried the other TCM ... still nothing, so it's got to be wiring.

      One possibility is that the fluid level is too low (I hope!).

      I had changed the fluid and filter during the disassembly ... but I had retained the original Passat 2.0T transmission cooler (in front of the battery), and the transmission cooler in front of the radiator ... plus the loss of fluid from the torque converter during disassembly ... the fluid level may be low. I'll find out tomorrow. I'll also check all my transmission electrical connections. Although, with the P0864, clearly there's still a transmission electrical problem, but I would think I should at least have limp-mode.

      The other concern is the fact that I'm getting dashboard warning lights for: ABS, Steering (although the steering works fine), EPC (may be related to the P0864), and ESP lights. Don't know if all these are related, or if some are due to the fact that the battery has been disconnected for so long. I DO know that one of the sensor wires is broken on the driver's front wheel (don't remember if it's pad wear sensor or ABS).

      The car was still at the local VW Dealership so I couldn't do much work on it there ... I had it towed back to the garage and I'll get into it tomorrow.

      Any ideas on the P0864? I've read somewhere that some later model Audis had the TCM interconnected into the immobilizer system ... sure hope that's not the case!

      At least the car runs ... that's a step in the right direction!
      Last edited by Geoffzie; 05-09-2017 at 10:49 PM. Reason: spelling

    15. Member jddaigle's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 30th, 2003
      Denver, CO
      2008 Passat Wagon VR6 4motion, 2013 FIAT 500 Sport
      05-09-2017 10:56 PM #40
      The Steering and ESP lighst should go away after you drive it a 100 yards or so—the angle sensor needs to self-calibrate. ABS could be a similar situation. Good luck with the transmission!
      - Jeff
      B6 Passat 3.6 & 4motion Resource Thread
      Now: 2008 VW Passat 3.6 4motion Wagon, 2013 Fiat 500 Sport
      Then: 1987 Volvo 745GLE, 1989 Volvo 740GL, 1994 Volvo 940T, 1995 Infiniti G20, 2000 VW Passat 1.8T, 2001 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Ed (x2), 2004 VW Golf TDI, 2006 Jetta TDI

    16. 05-11-2017 07:50 PM #41
      Well, I finally drove the car for the first time today! ... but. (I know, there always seems to be a "but") Jddaigle, as you said, most of the dash lights went out. I'm left with the check-engine light (P0864, P0036, P2400), parking brake light, ABS light, and ESP light, and low tire pressure (I know one of the wheel pressure sensors is bad).

      I'm getting a whine from the driver's side rear wheel, so there may be a bad wheel bearing ... which could cause the ABS light. I probably should look at the left-rear emergency brake too, since I'm getting a dash light for the emergency brake.

      The transmission was indeed low on fluid ... I had to add about 2 quarts (4 total). I used the rest of the Valvoline MaxLife that I used when I changed the fluid and filter. The car now drives ... but only in limp-mode ... there's still the P0864 code. I've checked all the fuses, and cleaned all the transmission plugs with electrical cleaner (shift cable plug and both speed sensors). I also checked the shift-linkage adjustment (ok). Still the same thing ... P0864.

      I've never driven this car before today, I bought it in boxes ... but there's no reason to believe that there were transmission issues before ... the primary problem was the engine failure. As I said in my previous post, I even switched out the TCM under the driver's front fender ... still P0864. All of the transmission range lights are lit up on the dash too.

      Any ideas on this? I've already posted something about this over in the Transmission Forum.

    17. 05-12-2017 10:29 AM #42
      Keeping eager eyes on this, TY for all the updates.

    18. Member low_passat's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 11th, 2010
      Goodyear, AZ
      '07 B6 Passat
      05-12-2017 12:17 PM #43
      Have you tried clearing the transmission code with vag com? I had similar problem when my battery died and had to be replaced. Once I cleared the code everything was back to normal.

      Regarding the Valvoline transmission fluid, personally I think you're risking a very expensive fix not using fluid designed/approved for the Aisin box
      2007 Candy White/Black Passat 2.0T Wolfsburg Edition| APR Stage 2+ | APR HPFP | Forge WINtake | S3 Intercooler | B&B 3" Turbo-Back Exhaust | Dogbone Insert | FK Silverline+ Coilovers | Front Lip Spoiler/Hi-Def Sideskirts | Votex Trunk Lip Spoiler | R-Line Fog Grilles | Clear Corners | HID Kit - low beams & fogs | RCD-510 | Podi Boost gauge | R-Line Pedals | GTI Steering Wheel |

    19. 05-12-2017 04:32 PM #44
      Low_passat, I don't have Vag-Com, but I've cleared the codes with an OBDII reader ... and they just come back. I'm trying to find wiring diagrams for the TCM in Bentley's ... not sure what section they'd be under.

      Believe me, I did my research on MaxLife before I used it. I presently have it in my 2004 Toyota Sienna van that has the original transmission ... and 370,000 miles!

      Here are some MaxLife testimonies on PassatWorld ...

      1. "For those who say the Maxlife is not the correct fluid, call Valvoline 1-800-TEAM-VAL and press 5 to speak to the people who know what products are certified for what applications... Maxlife ATF is certified to meet or exceed the specs of the OEM fluid for our Audi/VW's with the ZF transmissions and many say it improves the performance of their tans after they do a full flush with the Maxlife."

      "I just saved $150 using Maxlife instead of paying a ridiculous amount for OEM branded fluid. If Valvoline stands behind the application of it, then that's good enough for me to know I'm saving money and NOT compromising anything while doing so. Chances are I'm probably getting better protection for my high mileage transmission by using it. But as I said above, if spending 4x for OEM fluid makes you feel better, then go on ahead an pay it."

      "I personally, have read enough about people's experiences who have used it in the exact same trans that I have in my v6 4motion trans.. And then after speaking to Valvoline personally, I have no issue switching over to it while saving $150 at the same time. Doesn't hurt that's it's also designed for high mileage transmissions either."

      2. "The transmission specialist that maintains our company vans and trucks buys Valvoline MaxLife by the 55 gallon drum, and uses that in every Dex/Merc application, including Audi, BMW, Porsche, and VW. He told me that with the 3-year warranty he gives on his rebuilds, he couldn't afford to blow it using defective ATF.

      3. "I've been using only the MaxLife in my Audi A4 since '08, and with over 230k miles still shifts perfectly. I've had MaxLife in our VW Passat, my daughter's 3.0 A4, and my 2.8 A4 transmissions for years, with complete satisfaction. MaxLife is a synthetic Dexron/Mercon ATF, the only change in how the transmission behaved after changing out the OEM brown ATF (by 'change out' I mean two full pan drop/refills to reach ~90%) was the elimination of a slight first-gear shudder."

      Here's a Valvoline application chart (from 2013):

      By the way, even considering that the transmission is starting out in third gear (limp-mode) ... the car runs pretty good with the 2.5 5-cylinder! I've only driven around the block until I can sort out the transmission issue.

    20. 05-13-2017 05:45 PM #45
      I resolved the P0036 (O2 Heater Control Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2) and P2400 (EVAP Leak Detection Pump Circuit/Open) issues today. Since I didn't have any immediate solutions for the P0864 transmission code, I figured I'd check the other codes ... just in case they were related to the P0864.

      It turns out the 02 Sensor 2 and Leak Detection Pump were both being powered by the J670 (ECU Power Supply Relay 2). Since the 2.5L Jetta ECU didn't have this relay, nor the connections to power the relay ... I had just removed the relay and used a "jumper bridge". Even though it worked, apparently, the VW electrical system didn't like my idea!

      I reinstalled the relay and temporarily powered it with 12V, just to see what would happen. I cleared the codes and ... voila ... they're gone! Unfortunately, I still have the P0864 transmission code. I'm going to have to install ANOTHER relay to power the J670 relay. A relay to power a relay! ... that's all this car needs is another relay! But I can't think of any other way to do it.

      So, that means all the engines codes are fixed ... I just have to deal with the P0864 transmission code now, and the ABS and EPC and Emergency Brake faults. That tells me that all the ECU engine management wiring connections that I made are correct.

      Now I'm going to examine all the wiring changes I had to make to install the fuel pump relays and Secondary Air Pump relay ... there may be a connection between them and the transmission issue and other issues.

      I realize too, this whole project would have been a LOT simpler (and faster) ... if I had VagCom. But since I rarely work on VW's I'm wondering whether the investment would be worth it. I wish I knew someone close who had it ... it might help me sort out the transmission issue. To those who are familiar with VagCom (low_passat) ... does clearing codes with an OBDII Scanner and clearing the codes with VagCom accomplish the same thing?

      I've also read online in more than one instance ... that on vehicles where the battery went dead, or vehicles that sat for long periods of time ... they would get ABS, EPC, or Emergency Brake error lights ... until after they did a "reset". Not really sure what that involves. That's something I might have to look into further.

      In spite of all the problems, this swap really isn't that difficult ... once all the wiring changes are sorted out and documented.

    21. Member jddaigle's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 30th, 2003
      Denver, CO
      2008 Passat Wagon VR6 4motion, 2013 FIAT 500 Sport
      05-13-2017 06:36 PM #46
      For what you're doing a VAG-COM is definitely worth it. You can actually query the individual modules in the car, log live data, and get much, much more detailed info than with a generic scanner. I don't know what your time is worth but I'll bet it would have paid for itself already by making the whole process easier!
      - Jeff
      B6 Passat 3.6 & 4motion Resource Thread
      Now: 2008 VW Passat 3.6 4motion Wagon, 2013 Fiat 500 Sport
      Then: 1987 Volvo 745GLE, 1989 Volvo 740GL, 1994 Volvo 940T, 1995 Infiniti G20, 2000 VW Passat 1.8T, 2001 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Ed (x2), 2004 VW Golf TDI, 2006 Jetta TDI

    22. 05-16-2017 03:32 PM #47
      If you don't want to invest in one, here is a VAG-COM locator. See if you can find someone close by who can loan you one or is willing to do diagnostics usually over a few beers

    23. 05-16-2017 07:34 PM #48
      Actually, the guy that sold me the 2.5 engine, the engine wiring harness, and the original ECU has one, K2 Auto Works LLC in Canton Ohio. He works on mostly VW's but other imports too. Don't know why I didn't think of him before, I called him this morning.

      I'm driving the car over there tomorrow morning (in limp-mode), he's going to scan it, clear any codes, and give me a print out.

      I may still have an ABS light, even if clearing the codes fixes the transmission issue. I'm getting a whirling noise (like a wheel bearing or noisy tire) on the driver's front ... I think ... I originally thought it was in the rear. And I've heard a bad wheel bearing can cause ABS faults.

      I also hear a random clunk in the front somewhere ... I don't think it's suspension ... but I'll have to check that out too. I've been so focused upon just getting the car driveable, that I haven't dealt with some other issues. Although I did get some door hinges off a 2008 Passat Wagon today and installed them. The little rollers on three of my four door hinges were rusted solid and didn't turn.

      I should know by tomorrow afternoon what the VAG-COM shows up.

    24. 05-18-2017 08:24 AM #49
      Yesterday I drove the car to K2 Auto Works LLC in Canton Ohio ... and he hooked it up to VAG-COM, he gave me a printout, and then cleared all the codes. He said an OBDII reader will not really clear the codes like VAG-COM can ... I didn't know that.

      I should have had VAG-COM from the beginning!

      The first time I took it down the road ... no change, still in limp-mode. But then he cleared them again and ... voila, I've got normal shifting again! ... and Tiptronic works too! I put about 60 miles on the car yesterday, and the transmission works fine, and the engine runs great.

      There doesn't seem to be any ill-side-effects of disabling the immobilizer in this car. One of the problems he said (at least) is apparently, when these cars sit for a long periods of time with a dead battery ... they'll set all kinds of fault codes when you hook them back up.


      1. The 2.0T FSI 09G transmission (and it's specific 2.0T programming) work fine on the 2.5L 5-Cyl. engine. No need to purchase a 2.5L Jetta specific transmission.
      2. The 2.0T FSI Transmission Control Module (TCM) works fine with the 2.5L Jetta ECU and engine. No need to purchase a 2.5L Jetta TCM.
      3. The 2.0T FSI torque converter works fine with the 2.5L engine. No need to purchase a 2.5L converter.

      I've got some other issues I've got to deal with ... ABS light (sensor on one wheel I think) ... a parking brake fault ... and some other small issues. But at least the car is driveable now.

      I'll go into more detail later when I've got more time.

    25. Member jddaigle's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 30th, 2003
      Denver, CO
      2008 Passat Wagon VR6 4motion, 2013 FIAT 500 Sport
      05-18-2017 09:55 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Geoffzie View Post
      The first time I took it down the road ... no change, still in limp-mode. But then he cleared them again and ... voila, I've got normal shifting again! ... and Tiptronic works too! I put about 60 miles on the car yesterday, and the transmission works fine, and the engine runs great.
      to you! Glad it's on the road!
      - Jeff
      B6 Passat 3.6 & 4motion Resource Thread
      Now: 2008 VW Passat 3.6 4motion Wagon, 2013 Fiat 500 Sport
      Then: 1987 Volvo 745GLE, 1989 Volvo 740GL, 1994 Volvo 940T, 1995 Infiniti G20, 2000 VW Passat 1.8T, 2001 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Ed (x2), 2004 VW Golf TDI, 2006 Jetta TDI

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