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    1. Member SAV912's Avatar
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      04-11-2017 06:16 PM #326
      Quote Originally Posted by Perceptive Bunny View Post
      I don't recall this back then, but then again my memory's shot.

      It seems like they change the format to this thing every ****ing year.

      Dunno, I've had Sundays off recently, and this year just doesn't seem to have the drama, manufactured or otherwise. When the biggest thing that's happened so far is Logano "dumping" Kyle, it's been a quiet year. I figured the stage racing would cause more feistiness leading to more crashing, but either everyone has a much better handle on their cars this year than last year, or it's just getting too expensive to wad these cars up now. Crash videos on You Tube for every race outside of Daytona this year are way down compared to last.
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      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Good point. I look like that when I lose my place in line at the grocery store. Can't imagine what would happen to my face if I lost $64M.

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      04-11-2017 07:04 PM #327
      Quote Originally Posted by SAV912 View Post
      It seems like they change the format to this thing every ****ing year.

      Dunno, I've had Sundays off recently, and this year just doesn't seem to have the drama, manufactured or otherwise. When the biggest thing that's happened so far is Logano "dumping" Kyle, it's been a quiet year. I figured the stage racing would cause more feistiness leading to more crashing, but either everyone has a much better handle on their cars this year than last year, or it's just getting too expensive to wad these cars up now. Crash videos on You Tube for every race outside of Daytona this year are way down compared to last.
      When the current gen6 car came out, it was very much like this. Very few wrecks. It was almost as if drivers got together and said, "hey, we're going too fast now to crash. So let's take it easy, and settle the race in the last 60 laps."

      I think the stage feature is still stupid. We're in a 30-second world and NASCAR is still running the 24 hours of de bore. Shortening the races would be a better option. Limit races to X miles/laps or 3 hours. Don't force 3 cautions in the first 1/3rd of the race. Break races into 100 lap/mile segments. 5 minute break between each one, total of 4 segments. Points awarded to top 10 each segment (quarter). Add up the points at the end. Done.

      If NASCAR wants to get real gimmicky... first 2 segments are to the left; last 2 segments are to the right! Oh the humanity!
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    3. Member SAV912's Avatar
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      04-11-2017 07:26 PM #328
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      When the current gen6 car came out, it was very much like this. Very few wrecks. It was almost as if drivers got together and said, "hey, we're going too fast now to crash. So let's take it easy, and settle the race in the last 60 laps."

      I think the stage feature is still stupid. We're in a 30-second world and NASCAR is still running the 24 hours of de bore. Shortening the races would be a better option. Limit races to X miles/laps or 3 hours. Don't force 3 cautions in the first 1/3rd of the race. Break races into 100 lap/mile segments. 5 minute break between each one, total of 4 segments. Points awarded to top 10 each segment (quarter). Add up the points at the end. Done.

      If NASCAR wants to get real gimmicky... first 2 segments are to the left; last 2 segments are to the right! Oh the humanity!
      I would totally be on board with that. Would force a lot of detail changes to the cars though, as the toe/camber/aero settings (especially trackbar and that window spoiler that I've forgotten the name of) probably don't work at all going the opposite direction.

      I find the tracks they run to be more a problem than how long they run. There's no reason to go to Loudon twice a year, and only once to Atlanta. When you have road courses and such in the Xfinity series, and then the Cup guys are going to Atlanta, Kansas, Kentucky, Charlotte, California, Texas and more (all 1.5 to 2 mile D shape ovals), it gets monotonous. This week in Nascar, let's see Truex and Busch mow down laps at a 1.5 miler. Add a late debris caution and we'll see what happens!
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      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Good point. I look like that when I lose my place in line at the grocery store. Can't imagine what would happen to my face if I lost $64M.

    4. 04-11-2017 08:47 PM #329
      Quote Originally Posted by SAV912 View Post
      It seems like they change the format to this thing every ****ing year.

      Dunno, I've had Sundays off recently, and this year just doesn't seem to have the drama, manufactured or otherwise. When the biggest thing that's happened so far is Logano "dumping" Kyle, it's been a quiet year. I figured the stage racing would cause more feistiness leading to more crashing, but either everyone has a much better handle on their cars this year than last year, or it's just getting too expensive to wad these cars up now. Crash videos on You Tube for every race outside of Daytona this year are way down compared to last.
      Me thinks they have their hands full getting used to driving the cars. I noticed something uncharacteristic in last week's race actually-- there was a point when JJ swooped down to the bottom in front of Almirola to avoid being hung out on the top, and Almirola did not seem to let more than he needed to. But his car lost at least two cars length from that loss of aero downforce; more than I've seen in previous years. Could have been the slick track too.

      Only person fun to watch as of yet is that 42 car.

      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      When the current gen6 car came out, it was very much like this. Very few wrecks. It was almost as if drivers got together and said, "hey, we're going too fast now to crash. So let's take it easy, and settle the race in the last 60 laps."

      I think the stage feature is still stupid. We're in a 30-second world and NASCAR is still running the 24 hours of de bore. Shortening the races would be a better option. Limit races to X miles/laps or 3 hours. Don't force 3 cautions in the first 1/3rd of the race. Break races into 100 lap/mile segments. 5 minute break between each one, total of 4 segments. Points awarded to top 10 each segment (quarter). Add up the points at the end. Done.

      If NASCAR wants to get real gimmicky... first 2 segments are to the left; last 2 segments are to the right! Oh the humanity!
      That's actually not bad. Though any type of segment race is ruining it for methodical racers like Matt. Nonetheless, It will get interesting come Darlington and Richmond and other tracks where you have to race the track just as much.
      Leave it to the internet to drop a chair on your back, when you've merely stubbed your toe on it.

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      04-11-2017 11:56 PM #330
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      I think the stage feature is still stupid.
      I don't mind the stages, but get rid of the flippin', godforsaken cautions after the first two!! "Blah, blah, advertising revenue, blah, blah..." Don't care! Get rid of the damn cautions! It's bad enough we have phantom debris cautions, competition cautions, and pitting under yellow, now we have these absolutely pointless (racing-wise) stage cautions!

      Quote Originally Posted by Perceptive Bunny View Post
      ... Forgot my fantasy password.
      Well, that explains your 0 points the last few weeks. However, there are still only two of us Fantasying every week.

      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      Just for grins, I looked for tickets at Dover, spring race. Between $58 and $98. Darlington in September? How about $83-$240?

      Richmond is $10-$120. There are some top row seats on grandstand N for $70.
      At least you can see ticket prices for Darlington. November Phoenix race? "Check back". Pre-race Pit Pass is $60, however. Nearby parking? $25-30 (parking is free if you enjoy really long walks in the desert). Last time I went to PIR (years ago) it was $30 to bring your own chair to sit on the hill (and I watched helicopters landing/taking off more than the race ). For the upcoming Indy race, grandstand seats range from $35 to $70; IIRC, NASCAR grandstand pricing at PIR is more in line with Dover.
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    6. Member GreenandChrome's Avatar
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      04-12-2017 01:42 AM #331
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86 View Post

      At least you can see ticket prices for Darlington. November Phoenix race? "Check back". Pre-race Pit Pass is $60, however. Nearby parking? $25-30 (parking is free if you enjoy really long walks in the desert). Last time I went to PIR (years ago) it was $30 to bring your own chair to sit on the hill (and I watched helicopters landing/taking off more than the race ). For the upcoming Indy race, grandstand seats range from $35 to $70; IIRC, NASCAR grandstand pricing at PIR is more in line with Dover.
      Phoenix has to deal with being the penultimate race, so of course they'll wait on ticket prices.
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      04-12-2017 02:49 AM #332
      Not sure how I feel about the optional soft tire. It'll be everyone saving it for the end.
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      04-12-2017 08:00 AM #333
      Does anyone know when the fan vote opens for the All-Star race?
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
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      04-12-2017 08:23 AM #334
      Dear NASCAR,

      Please move the Coke 600 to Saturday night instead of Sunday to allow NASCAR drivers to run the Indy 500. If Fernando Alonso can skip an F1 race, then you, NASCAR can move the race to Saturday night OR forgo the All-Star race altogether and run the 600 the weekend prior.

      Thank you,
      Motor Racing Fans

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      04-12-2017 09:49 AM #335
      Nah, don't run it the week before, it's the memorial day weekend tradition. Indy just needs to start at 11a like it used to and everything would be gravy.

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      04-12-2017 10:05 AM #336
      Quote Originally Posted by Woodski View Post
      Nah, don't run it the week before, it's the memorial day weekend tradition. Indy just needs to start at 11a like it used to and everything would be gravy.
      - The All-Star race is a joke
      - The 500 has been a Memorial Day tradition slightly longer
      - If F1 drivers start migrating to Indy, then NASCAR drivers will follow suit
      - Dale Earnhardt Jr. has already said he will race Indy before he retires


      If three or four NASCAR big names show interest, and with NASCAR's dwindling attendance, I would wager that NASCAR will buckle and reschedule

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      04-14-2017 02:01 AM #337
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      - The All-Star race is a joke
      - The 500 has been a Memorial Day tradition slightly longer
      - If F1 drivers start migrating to Indy, then NASCAR drivers will follow suit
      - Dale Earnhardt Jr. has already said he will race Indy before he retires


      If three or four NASCAR big names show interest, and with NASCAR's dwindling attendance, I would wager that NASCAR will buckle and reschedule
      I don't think Indy really wants any interlopers. It's not like IndyCar has attendance numbers comparable to Cup. 1/5th the audience. Even if IndyCar gets a couple names, no one is going to defect over to IndyCar for a full season. I would think JJ or KK would be the best ones to give it a go; JJ for bucket list, KK to return to open wheel roots.

      It doesn't say much about IndyCar when multi-championship winning drivers can't even get/keep a ride in Xfinity, even after a season or two at the Cup level. There's nothing I'd rather see than some Cup guys move over and compete to prove which series is tougher. The 500 is hardly a good barometer.

      If you use JPM as a guide, the guy spends almost a decade in Cup, returns to open wheel, and wins his first season back. His second season he ties for the championship only to lose it in a Wins tiebreaker?
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      04-14-2017 08:51 AM #338
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      It doesn't say much about IndyCar when multi-championship winning drivers can't even get/keep a ride in Xfinity, even after a season or two at the Cup level. There's nothing I'd rather see than some Cup guys move over and compete to prove which series is tougher. The 500 is hardly a good barometer.

      If you use JPM as a guide, the guy spends almost a decade in Cup, returns to open wheel, and wins his first season back. His second season he ties for the championship only to lose it in a Wins tiebreaker?
      I always think this. Tony may be the exception, but Sam Hornish Jr. was very successful in indycar and basically complete junk in NASCAR. Is it the level of competition or are Stock Cars just such a different animal that it has to be a lifelong practice?

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      04-14-2017 11:59 AM #339
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      I don't think Indy really wants any interlopers.
      They most certainly do. Robin Miller has said that IndyCar management wants the boost from the big names, and hopes that they stay (although we all know they won't). IndyCar has NOT been successful in the last decade or more due to poor management, **** planning, and boring racing. That is known.

      Look at NASCAR attendance lately... Motorsport fans aren't just giving up on motorsport. They are evolving and changing, and NASCAR can't keep up with it. In no way, shape, or form am I saying that IndyCar is doing better, but the danger aspect and not having the redneck stigma attached might just help their cause. Back when IndyCar was running Germany, Japan, Australia, etc., is when they had their act together. I hope that a small boost in attendance and a changing of the guard in management will help their series, but it will never be as popular as NASCAR for a variety of reasons.

      Comparing IndyCar driving talent to NASCAR talent is like comparing apples to bacon. Totally different skills, mindsets, and preparation. If Andretti, Foyt, Stewart can do it, then why can't anyone else? Because there hasn't been a talent that relates well to both series since.

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      04-14-2017 12:58 PM #340
      Quote Originally Posted by amusante1002 View Post
      I always think this. Tony may be the exception, but Sam Hornish Jr. was very successful in indycar and basically complete junk in NASCAR. Is it the level of competition or are Stock Cars just such a different animal that it has to be a lifelong practice?
      It's the way cars are fundamentally driven. Stock cars are heavier, etc, and "technologically challenged." IndyCars are light, tons of downforce, and have big, fat tires. Cup cars are basically couches. They lolligag through the corners. IndyCars are big go-karts. Not fun-carts down at the arcade- go-karts with 125cc Bombadier motors going 130mph.

      In a Stock car, you brake and corner at the same time, using lateral forces to scrub speed in addition to engine and braking. In IndyCar, you brake before the corner, "coast" through entry, and then you're back hard on the throttle.

      Engine dynamics play a huge part, as a 3.0L (or whatever Indy use) is a vastly different beast than a 5.7L. Big motors slow down quick. My b-i-l raced back-to-back events where the first had a 9:1 compression V8, the next event he had a 13:1 V8. Totally different driving style was needed. And what's the true difference between a 9:1 and 13:1? Fractions of an inch in the compression chamber. That's it. And it made that big of a difference on the track. So imagine when you have two vastly different engine platforms.

      And then, of course, there are the aerodynamic differences. Which I'd need charts, an overhead projector, and 4 years of schooling to explain.

      Martinsville is a good case. Danica runs pretty well there. It's because you have to roll through the corners. Jimmie Johnson always runs good there. Because he rolls through the corner. AJ Allmendinger has some good runs there as well. But most other tracks it's brake in, gas off, with little coasting involved.

      The aero helps drivers cover their finesse (imho). There's that little bit of space between breaking loose, letting aero control it, and spinning out. One year we ran a "Downforce body" on our late model. It was totally badass. We had to change our baseline setup because there was so much downforce, the nose never got down. It looked like it was taking a dump all around the track. So we bumped up the rear springs 50# and dropped the fronts 75#. Huge difference.

      Here's a reference pic of a downforce asphalt body. We ran ours in 2004, so it was slightly different. One major difference was the offset greenhouse; ours was to the left, so there was an 8" shelf that went down the right side. If we built it a little stronger, you would have been able to sit on the right side door easily.


      During the off season we had to fix the body, and while we were at it, we extended the front about 8-10" to help balance the rear. We never got the chance to run it, unfortunately. But it looked awesome.

      And at the same time, when you look at the road courses on the Cup series, the IndyCar people have won a fair amount of them, but they still don't really dominate like they should. A guy with probably the best apples to apples ability is Ron Fellows. He can't do s**t in Cup; probably the equipment. But even in Xfinity, he drives for great teams, yet he still doesn't dominate like you would expect. Talent can only make up so much. SCCA TransAm, when it was around, was very similar to stock cars.

      One race we ran was at PIR (Portland) during the CART weekend. We lost to Mark Martin (in his prime) and an part-time driving school instructor, both who were driving road-course specific cars. We just had our one car that we swapped front suspension lengths. For $5,000-$7,000 and an extra week, would could have converted it even more, but hindsight is 20/20.

      As much as I would like to think it's hard driving in Cup, I don't have solid evidence of a Cup driver going into IndyCar or F1 and being successful. Even the PR stunts with Gordon and Stewart driving F1 cars were not very convincing.
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    16. 04-14-2017 01:35 PM #341
      Quote Originally Posted by amusante1002 View Post
      I always think this. Tony may be the exception, but Sam Hornish Jr. was very successful in indycar and basically complete junk in NASCAR. Is it the level of competition or are Stock Cars just such a different animal that it has to be a lifelong practice?
      And Montoya, and Danica..
      Leave it to the internet to drop a chair on your back, when you've merely stubbed your toe on it.

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      04-14-2017 01:49 PM #342
      I don't know how you can judge Tony and Jeff's performances in F1 cars as being "not very convincing". Their first times driving an F1 car, on track layouts they had never driven before, and Tony even drove the Macca on a damp track...

      I'm curious as to what rulebook allows a nose to be extended eight to ten inches (a massive tolerance band might I add ) seemingly just because you felt like it.

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      04-14-2017 04:01 PM #343
      Quote Originally Posted by Perceptive Bunny View Post
      And Montoya, and Danica..
      Montoya had 2 wins in 10 years and never competed for a Cup championship (making the chase doesn't make you a contender). Danica was a false hope in IndyCar as well.

      Quote Originally Posted by Harpoon View Post
      I don't know how you can judge Tony and Jeff's performances in F1 cars as being "not very convincing". Their first times driving an F1 car, on track layouts they had never driven before, and Tony even drove the Macca on a damp track...

      I'm curious as to what rulebook allows a nose to be extended eight to ten inches (a massive tolerance band might I add ) seemingly just because you felt like it.
      I'm just saying a PR stunt with no official timing isn't real objective. Was the speed surprising to some? Sure. But it wasn't like they spent the day testing and had real, hard data.

      The joys of the downforce body rules- the car only needed to have minimum 4" ground clearance, a 47" roof height and a maximum 36" spoiler height (from ground), and a 6"x60" spoiler. At a big race they didn't specify rear spoiler height, so some guys were going out with 10" rear spoilers, which was a total waste of time for them. Our spoiler was originally 5" tall, we had a 1" lexan extension and I was tempted to pull it off while we were in line for qualifying. I really should have done it.

      I really wish I had pics of the car. I can't find any online, thanks to a racing site that abruptly shut down a couple of years ago.
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    19. 04-15-2017 08:20 AM #344
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      They most certainly do. Robin Miller has said that IndyCar management wants the boost from the big names, and hopes that they stay (although we all know they won't). IndyCar has NOT been successful in the last decade or more due to poor management, **** planning, and boring racing. That is known.

      Look at NASCAR attendance lately... Motorsport fans aren't just giving up on motorsport. They are evolving and changing, and NASCAR can't keep up with it. In no way, shape, or form am I saying that IndyCar is doing better, but the danger aspect and not having the redneck stigma attached might just help their cause. Back when IndyCar was running Germany, Japan, Australia, etc., is when they had their act together. I hope that a small boost in attendance and a changing of the guard in management will help their series, but it will never be as popular as NASCAR for a variety of reasons.!

      Comparing IndyCar driving talent to NASCAR talent is like comparing apples to bacon. Totally different skills, mindsets, and preparation. If Andretti, Foyt, Stewart can do it, then why can't anyone else? Because there hasn't been a talent that relates well to both series since.
      Yeah,I agree. Plus kids are $10 admission now so clearly they have an agenda to change the outlook of the sport with growing fans.

      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      Montoya had 2 wins in 10 years and never competed for a Cup championship (making the chase doesn't make you a contender). Danica was a false hope in IndyCar as well.

      .
      Unfortunately they aired that one Japan race where she won and I just happened to be watching it like..

      Leave it to the internet to drop a chair on your back, when you've merely stubbed your toe on it.

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      04-21-2017 01:15 AM #345
      I love this

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      04-21-2017 08:22 AM #346
      Smug Danica w/ her trophy after the Motegi win is one of my favorite pictures tbh.

    22. 04-21-2017 08:58 AM #347
      Quote Originally Posted by Woodski View Post
      Smug Danica w/ her trophy after the Motegi win is one of my favorite pictures tbh.

      I like her for the most part and I think it's cute she thinks that she can run with the big boys.

      Plus, she obviously wanted the D that one time I met her
      Leave it to the internet to drop a chair on your back, when you've merely stubbed your toe on it.

    23. 04-23-2017 09:57 AM #348
      If yesterday's race was an indication for anything, I'm gonna be a sleeper today.

      That's the second time EJ won at Bristol
      Leave it to the internet to drop a chair on your back, when you've merely stubbed your toe on it.

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      04-23-2017 11:58 AM #349
      I can't wait for her to be gone after this season. 10 is probably gonna fold unless they think Cole is ready and can come up with big bucks. SHR is in dire need or sponsorship on both the 10 and 14.

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      04-23-2017 12:36 PM #350
      Doubt the race will happen today. Fingers crossed though
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