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    1. Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 01:28 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      So... does this mean you will officially stop complaining about water problems and avocado farmers
      i dont complain about either
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

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      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
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    2. Member veedubman72's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 02:46 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      So... does this mean you will officially stop complaining about water problems and avocado farmers
      Thousands and thousands of acres of almonds and pistachio orchards in a desert and they grow more than twice what they can reasonably sell. It was like this in 2011 and 2006. We go through 5+ years of drought in between these above normal events and one more above normal year followed by another series of drought years will never fix this .

    3. Global Moderator Paul@VWvortex's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 02:57 PM #28
      I think that a lot of the avocado farms have moved to Arizona anyways.

      Oroville Dam, a Failure to Communicate --- by Scott Cahill.
      A couple of days ago, I went out on a limb and said what I thought about the probability of cutback erosion of the spillways of the Oroville Dam. Oroville is an earthen embankment dam. It is a very large dam, the tallest in the US.

      I noted the vents porting water on actuation of the spillway, and assumed that the plate slab failure would soon occur. The erosion is still occurring. The areas below the dam have been evacuated. The situation is tenuous, at best.

      Many officials, during the evolution of the failure of the spillway, came forward to assure the public that all was well. All was not well, and all is not well. All shall not be well for a long while with this dam. Why can men not simply be truthful to other men? When did some fool decide that we must placate the American public, hiding any bad thing from them as if they were children?

      I am a believer in men. I believe the people can handle hard truths. I also believe that people in jeopardy, deserve to be told honest truth. These "officials" have and had no right to placate. Each of us has the right and the responsibility to protect our family and ourselves as we feel best. We cannot do so if we are mislead.
      Anyone involved in the safety of dams knows that the cutback of the primary spillway is a serious issue. Anyone in Dam Safety knows that the actuation of an emergency spillway that has never been used in the life of a dam is a big thing. This, of course means that water elevations are above any that have existed previously. Anyone in Dam Safety knows that an emergency spillway is not the same as a forest. An emergency spillway should be a grassed, even slope. No woody vegetation should be in the spillway. Part of the emergency spillway was cleared only days before it had to be used, leaving the worst possible surface to receive flow, loose soil. That is simply ridiculous.
      Now the primary spillway is failing, due to a lack of proper inspection and maintenance, perhaps more, and the emergency spillway is also in a failure mode. There are only two spillways to relieve the reservoir of water. Rains have subsided, and from the most recent reports, the structure is intact.
      Soon the same faces shall reappear. Their patter will be sunshine and roses, again. The sun is out and all is right with the world, but all is not right. Rains shall again come to this watershed and, now, having blown the whistle of evacuation, they shall worry about criticism and promise to never do that again. The next time they will not be so fast. The next time they will wait a bit longer. The next time they may wait too long.

      We are the stewards of our infrastructure. Budgets are real, but responsibility of such stewardship is real, too. As men, as a nation, we have a shared responsibility to our fellow men, their well being and their property. It is a greater responsibility than any position or job. It is a societal responsibility that we all share, to care for each other. Lies and twisted truth compromise that trust.

      Disseminate truth in all that you do. If you are in a position of authority, you must learn candid and honest truth. If you cannot, you need to surrender your position to another who can.
      FEMA has a booklet on emergency planning for dams. On it's cover is a picture of a large earthen dam. It is the Oroville Dam.

      Scott Cahill

    4. Member TheDarkEnergist's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 03:00 PM #29
      It's insane that this happened the day I reached the flood in "The Great Johnstown Flood" by David McCullough.
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    5. Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      Lighten up Francis
      02-13-2017 03:35 PM #30
      Water always wins.

      New photos of the damaged emergency spillway. The scale doesn't set in until you realize how much it undercut and washed away the road.

      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

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    6. Member vwtool's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 03:59 PM #31
      …and here's the main spillway damage:





      And here's the spillway in relation to the earthen dam. The concern seems to be that the water overflowing the damaged spillway could undercut the dam itself.

      Last edited by vwtool; 02-13-2017 at 04:06 PM.

    7. 02-13-2017 04:27 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      Water always wins.

      New photos of the damaged emergency spillway. The scale doesn't set in until you realize how much it undercut and washed away the road.

      That big chunk missing in the bottom-center of the photo is why they called for evacuation. When that reaches the concrete section holding the water back, you'll suddenly have 30ft of water coming at you. The main spillway damage is kind of irrelevant.

    8. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 04:51 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Scott Cahill
      Now the primary spillway is failing, due to a lack of proper inspection and maintenance, perhaps more, and the emergency spillway is also in a failure mode.
      The officials are already saying it's not their fault, that they do annual inspections and that nothing is wrong:

      http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/13/calif...to-happen.html

      Quote Originally Posted by CNBC
      We have a very rigorous schedule of inspections that is determined by state and federal regulators," said See. "We actually do those inspections annually."

      State and federal officials failed to heed safety warnings about Oroville more than a decade ago, according to the Mercury News. The report Sunday said three environmental groups warned the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission about the vulnerability of the hillside emergency spillway.
      Way to, California, way to go. Tallest dam in the whole country, so they can't play games like "Oh, this was some dam nobody knew about and we had no idea this would happen." It's been raining all winter and the dam has been filling up for months. It's not like it just went 0-100 overnight and an earthquake happened to damage the spillway the same night.

    9. Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 05:24 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by vwtool View Post
      …and here's the main spillway damage:





      And here's the spillway in relation to the earthen dam. The concern seems to be that the water overflowing the damaged spillway could undercut the dam itself.
      thats the first day it was dry, once it got pouring over again it completely washed away.



      refernce for size



      More on that missing dirt approaching the emergency spillover
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    10. Member NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 05:39 PM #35
      Are there any live feeds showing the spillways? Will we get to watch anything that happens when it happens or will we just get after pictures?
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
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    11. Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 05:42 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      Are there any live feeds showing the spillways? Will we get to watch anything that happens when it happens or will we just get after pictures?
      dunno maybe a chopper? the water's down about 5' below the emergency spillway right now. it'll pickup later in the week but depends on how low it gets before that and how much rain comes down.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    12. Member 2.DOH.'s Avatar
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      02-13-2017 06:32 PM #37
      ...

    13. Member LT1M21Stingray's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 06:34 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.DOH. View Post
      I'm sure CNBC was flooded with questions.
      They don't give a dam.
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    14. Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      Lighten up Francis
      02-13-2017 06:36 PM #39
      They're trying to dump the lake by 50 feet in 2-3 days. 100,000 cubic feet a second is being discharged. Slightly more than an Olympic pool every second coming out. That's 8,640,000,000 cubic feet a day. About 90,000 pools per day.

      Manhattan is 22.82 square miles. That's 636,185,000 sq ft. At a total output of 8,640,000,000 cu ft that's enough to cover Manhattan in 13.6" of water daily. In 3 days they'd have 41" of water.

      37,000 cubic feet are coming in per second, so it's a net 60k they're ditching.
      Last edited by WhineMCABasket2.0t; 02-13-2017 at 06:41 PM.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    15. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 06:44 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by dodger21 View Post
      The worst part is they knew the spillway was damaged 4 years ago.
      I guess they figured that the drought was going to last another 4 years while Clinton was in office so they didn't need to fix it. Instead Trump was elected and the tears of all the state's population rained down.

    16. Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      02-13-2017 07:03 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by dodger21 View Post
      The worst part is they knew the spillway was damaged 4 years ago.

      Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk
      The spillway is just a mess, but it isn't cause for concern in a massive failure of the dam, at least for now. If the emergency spillway does indeed go it could eat across towards the main dam. Then look out Sacramento!

      I still think their biggest issue is going to be the spring runoff from the mountains. They're already getting worried that it's going to flood a lot of communities in the riverway areas up there.
      Last edited by WhineMCABasket2.0t; 02-13-2017 at 07:07 PM.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

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      02-13-2017 07:34 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      The spillway is just a mess, but it isn't cause for concern in a massive failure of the dam, at least for now. If the emergency spillway does indeed go it could eat across towards the main dam. Then look out Sacramento!

      I still think their biggest issue is going to be the spring runoff from the mountains. They're already getting worried that it's going to flood a lot of communities in the riverway areas up there.
      On what planet are you thinking that it wasn't a major cause for concern? Droughts aren't forever, why put it off? It is now showing why it needed to be repaired but no, we have to put it off for the next administration or elected official because we don't have to balls to.say it needs to be done and done in a timely manner.

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      02-13-2017 07:40 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.DOH. View Post
      I'm sure CNBC was flooded with questions.


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    19. 02-13-2017 07:47 PM #44
      Meh. The primary spillway failing doesn't cause any issues other than increased sediment downstream. Sounds like they inspected it and all was good. The emergency spillway hasn't been used since built. Given the recent drought, and the history, understandable that they couldn't secure State funds to improve it. Imagine the headlines if CA sunk a couple hundred $mil into a never used emergency spillway last summer.

    20. Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      Lighten up Francis
      02-13-2017 07:47 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by dodger21 View Post
      On what planet are you thinking that it wasn't a major cause for concern? Droughts aren't forever, why put it off? It is now showing why it needed to be repaired but no, we have to put it off for the next administration or elected official because we don't have to balls to.say it needs to be done and done in a timely manner.

      Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk
      I mean the spillways current damage isn't the immediate cause for concern. The channel it carved open appears to be holding and not eroding more. If that channel can handle the 100k cft a day itll get them through this for now. They will know better tomorrow morning if more erosion happens overnight or if the channel remains in tact.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

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      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
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      02-14-2017 12:47 AM #46
      Re: Oroville Dam, a Failure to Communicate --- by Scott Cahill..... Great point about the bad decision to clear cut the rooted vegetation that holds the hillside at the emergency spillway. Look at 11:45s Mark in this video https://youtu.be/MFPuxGr7y6c. Great point above about that clogging and creating a backup that built up pressure can collapse. Another point... Look at 7min mark 1 guy with a hand held cement spout? Only 2 cement trucks? What kind of budget restrictions are causing this lame response Look at the photo posted today, that cement held up.. But comprised like 5% of the top portion of the emergency spillway... They needed like 20-100 of those cement trucks..


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    22. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      02-14-2017 01:20 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.DOH. View Post
      Thanks for posting, that was beautiful video. I'm still so amazed at how cameras mounted on quad rotors have totally revolutionized how we are able to collect video quickly and cheaply. 1-2 operators and few thousand dollar quad rotor now does what used to take the dispatch of a 2-3 man crew on a million dollar helicopter.

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      02-14-2017 08:15 AM #48
      They are asking for Federal help.....where's your Calexit now? heheh
      It go down in the DM

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      02-14-2017 08:36 AM #49


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      02-14-2017 08:49 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Thanks for posting, that was beautiful video. I'm still so amazed at how cameras mounted on quad rotors have totally revolutionized how we are able to collect video quickly and cheaply. 1-2 operators and few thousand dollar quad rotor now does what used to take the dispatch of a 2-3 man crew on a million dollar helicopter.
      Free market economy does that.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tavarish
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