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    1. Member
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      02-14-2017 06:15 PM #76
      http://theconstructor.org/concrete/c...ith-time/5933/

      Inscribed with just two thumbs...

    2. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      02-14-2017 06:30 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Isn't 50 years the general lifespan of concrete (before it starts serious deterioration)?
      I have a feeling that many current structures were built in the 50s/60s/70s with the expectancy of being replaced before 2017.
      Yes, the article I read this morning said they got a 50-year operational permit that would be renewed pending a full analysis. That full analysis simply never happened, instead the government just rubber stamps a 1-year extension every year and says "That's fine. That's ok." So the 50-year permit doesn't mean anything when you get a rubber-stamped 1-year renewal year after year.

      Oroville Dam Operating Under Temporary Licenses For 10 Years
      Last edited by AZGolf; 02-14-2017 at 06:33 PM.

    3. Member vwbrvr6's Avatar
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      02-14-2017 08:55 PM #78
      All this over anylisis........maybe it was just a crack. Concrete does crack ya know.
      It go down in the DM

    4. Member vwtool's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:01 AM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by caliatenza View Post
      Yeah he didn't give me any proof, but its a theory of his. Cavitation damage also makes sense.
      We need the NTSB on this!

    5. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 07:00 AM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by vwtool View Post
      We need the NTSB on this!
      I mean...yeah basically. In depth analysis of the failure, the steps leading to it, and the jump off points that could have been made to prevent it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      They make my ass look pretty.

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      02-15-2017 07:50 AM #81

    7. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 11:09 AM #82
      These folks have their own private island now



      they are repairing up along the last bit of road, lining it with rock and concrete. i guess if the last bit of road were to wash away it'd be totally destabilizing to the whole structure up there.



      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    8. Member GoHomePossum's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 11:15 AM #83
      They have a lot of work to do....
      I now have an InstaGram: emmettlodge

    9. Member GoHomePossum's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 11:17 AM #84
      And Oroville is now under a flash flood watch until the 18th...rain's coming in tonight!
      I now have an InstaGram: emmettlodge

    10. Member NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 11:18 AM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by GoHomePossum View Post
      And Oroville is now under a flash flood watch until the 18th...rain's coming in tonight!
      So they sent everyone back home only to wait for death?
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
      "Now i am become death the destroyer of worlds."-bhagavad gita
      “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” -T.S. Eliot

    11. Member GoHomePossum's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 11:24 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      So they sent everyone back home only to wait for death?
      God dam I love a good disaster!

      I now have an InstaGram: emmettlodge

    12. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 11:24 AM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by GoHomePossum View Post
      They have a lot of work to do....
      No idea when they will get a chance to fix the main spillway. It's probably going to be in use for a long time to come with the Sierra melt. Won't have a very large window of time to fix it. The emergency spill wouldve never been activated if the main didn't fail and they had to cut the flow to inspect it.

      Quote Originally Posted by GoHomePossum View Post
      And Oroville is now under a flash flood watch until the 18th...rain's coming in tonight!
      This has been known for a week or more which is why they have been so frantic these past few days of dry weather. In all the areas to get rain directly on top of the dam is going to be the heaviest.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    13. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:00 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      No idea when they will get a chance to fix the main spillway. It's probably going to be in use for a long time to come with the Sierra melt. Won't have a very large window of time to fix it. The emergency spill wouldve never been activated if the main didn't fail and they had to cut the flow to inspect it.



      This has been known for a week or more which is why they have been so frantic these past few days of dry weather. In all the areas to get rain directly on top of the dam is going to be the heaviest.
      They can piecemeal repair during dry spells or when they can stop discharge (after they get the level down enough, obviously). High early strength concrete exists and mobile plants can be built onsite to fulfill the need. - once they have a plan of action, as long as they have the equipment and manpower it will be okay.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      They make my ass look pretty.

    14. Member NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:06 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      They can piecemeal repair during dry spells or when they can stop discharge (after they get the level down enough, obviously). High early strength concrete exists and mobile plants can be built onsite to fulfill the need. - once they have a plan of action, as long as they have the equipment and manpower it will be okay.
      They had years of dry spells to fit this issue.
      I say just let it fail now.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
      "Now i am become death the destroyer of worlds."-bhagavad gita
      “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” -T.S. Eliot

    15. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:13 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      They had years of dry spells to fit this issue.
      I say just let it fail now.
      Dam. That's rough(water).
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      They make my ass look pretty.

    16. Member vwtool's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:15 PM #91


      Shouldn't they have a chain-gang, bucket brigade of manpower filling in these chasms before the rain hits? I haven't seen any more than a handful of people working on this, just small crews. This seems like an "all hands on deck" sort of situation.

    17. Member NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:17 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by vwtool View Post


      Shouldn't they have a chain-gang, bucket brigade of manpower filling in these chasms before the rain hits? I haven't seen any more than a handful of people working on this, just small crews. This seems like an "all hands on deck" sort of situation.
      Again, they have had years of dry weather to fix it yet chose not to do anything. You think they really care about fixing it now?
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
      "Now i am become death the destroyer of worlds."-bhagavad gita
      “Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” -T.S. Eliot

    18. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:19 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by vwtool View Post


      Shouldn't they have a chain-gang, bucket brigade of manpower filling in these chasms before the rain hits? I haven't seen any more than a handful of people working on this, just small crews. This seems like an "all hands on deck" sort of situation.
      The state likely doesn't have crews capable. They might have one contractor on retainer(yearly or multi year on-demand repair contract) with the relevant equipment and capability. He has to get POed, mobilized, and the materials have to be made available. It isn't always possible to physically get the equipment and manpower on scene overnight (the fema help will enable that, though).
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      They make my ass look pretty.

    19. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 12:19 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by vwtool View Post
      Shouldn't they have a chain-gang, bucket brigade of manpower filling in these chasms before the rain hits? I haven't seen any more than a handful of people working on this, just small crews. This seems like an "all hands on deck" sort of situation.
      I'm no engineer but wouldn't buckets of soil just tossed in there all be washed away and lead to even more mud & debris flowing down stream?

      Water likes the path of least resistance and right now it's going to be those washed out channels.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    20. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 01:00 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      Again, they have had years of dry weather to fix it yet chose not to do anything. You think they really care about fixing it now?
      This is US government 101.
      Nobody wants to pay the taxes to get things done before they are an immediate emergency.
      (and one party seems to be worse than the other in regards to this...)

      We should learn from this- every politician that had a hand in this getting "washed over" for a decade while they made sure to fund their personal agendas should be shown the door today.
      ....

    21. Member
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      02-15-2017 01:16 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      This is US government 101.
      Nobody wants to pay the taxes to get things done before they are an immediate emergency.
      (and one party seems to be worse than the other in regards to this...)
      Pretty much. The NOLA levee system is a great example. Prior to 2005 the Army Corp of Engineers made major design/construction decisions that saved hundreds of millions of dollars, however those decisions also reduced the overall engineering reliability. Then when it came time to investigate after Katrina, the only federally sponsored study of "why did it fail" was conducted by...yes, the Army Corp of Engineers.

      We always pay ~5X more to do it right the second time around. We never seem to want to invest to get it right the first time. Private biz does this too.

    22. Member vwtool's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 01:47 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      I'm no engineer but wouldn't buckets of soil just tossed in there all be washed away and lead to even more mud & debris flowing down stream?

      Water likes the path of least resistance and right now it's going to be those washed out channels.
      Assuming they have to use the emergency spillway again, I would think even if the material is washed away, it still buys you time keeping the current away from the spillway wall.

      If I lived there, I wouldn't go back until after this next storm passes. It seems everyone is banking on the rainfall amounts not being too severe, but given that BOTH spillways are damaged, that seems a shaky bet.

    23. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 01:52 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by vwtool View Post
      Assuming they have to use the emergency spillway again, I would think even if the material is washed away, it still buys you time keeping the current away from the spillway wall.

      If I lived there, I wouldn't go back until after this next storm passes. It seems everyone is banking on the rainfall amounts not being too severe, but given that BOTH spillways are damaged, that seems a shaky bet.
      Well they can let water or the bottom of the dam, that's the Feather River. If they catch a long dry spell they can drop the dam levels without using the main spillway.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    24. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 01:54 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by vwtool View Post
      Assuming they have to use the emergency spillway again, I would think even if the material is washed away, it still buys you time keeping the current away from the spillway wall.

      If I lived there, I wouldn't go back until after this next storm passes. It seems everyone is banking on the rainfall amounts not being too severe, but given that BOTH spillways are damaged, that seems a shaky bet.
      Keeping water away from the wall is probably why the channels are not being filled.

      It's like that scene on chaos theory from Jurassic Park, water will choose the same path if hairs on the hand part in such a way to create the path of least resistance. I doubt the channels can be quickly filled with sufficiently packed materials to prevent another washout so dam crews just want a predicable over flow path.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    25. Member vwtool's Avatar
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      02-15-2017 02:06 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Keeping water away from the wall is probably why the channels are not being filled.

      It's like that scene on chaos theory from Jurassic Park, water will choose the same path if hairs on the hand part in such a way to create the path of least resistance. I doubt the channels can be quickly filled with sufficiently packed materials to prevent another washout so dam crews just want a predicable over flow path.
      They are being filled, just not completely. Crews are dropping boulders and covering them with a concrete slurry to help lock them in place.

      It looks like there are quite a few people working, this story gives good details:

      http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...214-story.html

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