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    1. 04-21-2017 11:53 AM #276
      Quote Originally Posted by dunhamjr View Post
      i see no issue in the tune. its lost money, but it has value during your ownership period.

      but why limit to ONLY that?

      wheels and tires are childs play to swap.
      suspension changes are mostly hand tools and a couple hours.
      adding/upgrading stereo/speakers is easy.
      etc.

      now forged pistons and big turbo? those things i get avoiding...
      but there are MANY mods out there that are fairly easy DIY and leave little to no trace once uninstalled.
      It's truly up to the owner where their line is. And that's really my point....the mods have value to the owner during the lease period. Strictly speaking, yeah, it's sunk cost, but you get enjoyment out of it...and that's the value prop you have to weigh.
      Matt
      2016 Honda Accord Sport CVT w/ HondaSensing, Crystal Black Pearl/Black

    2. Member Power5's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:03 PM #277
      Exactly. I do wheels and tires on some leases, and nothing on others. Hell on my first lease, 2001 TT 225, I did H&R coilovers, revo, cat back, and staggered 19s. Put it back to stock at end and sold all mods.

      Also, if you blow it up while leasing or financing and the dealership attributes the damage to your mods, warranty is gone either way. They don't even care if you own the car, rent the car, or make payments to their bank. Does not influence how they do their job.

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

    3. A beautiful Summer's Eve Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:12 PM #278
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      Why are you assuming that my comments have anything to do with money?

      It's about making intrusive modifications to an essentially rented car that can absolutely have a negative impact on its longevity and reliability.
      And a leased car is the best car to do that on! If you're going to impact long term reliability, do it on a long term rental. Don't do it on your car.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen.
      Quote Originally Posted by bothhandsplease View Post
      Brendan told me to get the best discount, I had to send dick pics. I thought this was standard car buying practice.
      Quote Originally Posted by H.E. Pennypacker View Post
      Brendan and his all knowing heavy breathing baboon are correct.

    4. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:21 PM #279


      You guys are something else.

      I didn't realize that tuning a leased car was now verboten by the TCL hive mind, but I learn new things here every day.

      I spent $4,000+ tuning my TTS, which I owned for exactly 12 months, and got basically zero dollars back on that. Was it a wise decision? Absolutely not. But just for comparison sake, a tune on the STI, assuming I keep it 2-3 years, isn't too bad. Especially so because the Cobb Access Port CAN BE SOLD WHEN YOU ARE DONE WITH IT. So I would get a good chunk of that change back in the future.

      As far as the "ethics" of tuning a leased car . . . shmeh.

      How is this appreciably different from buying the car, tuning it and hanging on to it for 3 years, and then trading it in? It's not. You people just like to find things to complain about.

      The Las Vegas dealer, up until about 6 months ago, actually had an aftermarket custom tuning shop integrated into its service department. They are super mod friendly, and the salesman actually told me, "Look, this car is much better with a custom tune. So long as you flash the car back to stock for service, you'll be fine. I've never seen a warranty denied."

      Am I relying on this as a golden rule? Absolutely not. Will I sue Subaru if I tune the car, the engine blows, and they deny my warranty? Probably not. But it is nice to know that the dealer is mod friendly and will work with me, as opposed to against me, if something happens.

      Additionally, most ringland failures cost about $5,000 to fix. If something terrible does happen, it won't bankrupt me. I obviously would want to avoid this at all costs, but my only point is that it won't be the end of the world if the engine does let go. I figure I have about a 10% chance of a $5,000 repair -- and even then it's a repair that is often partially or fully covered by warranty (in reality, far less than 10% of these engines blow before 36,000 miles). I can live with those odds.

    5. Member Turbo Benzina!'s Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:21 PM #280
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      And a leased car is the best car to do that on! If you're going to impact long term reliability, do it on a long term rental. Don't do it on your car.
      I wish my salesman had a similar attitude as you.

      Now, where do I order that JB4 from?

    6. Geriatric Member Hostile's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:40 PM #281
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      It's no different than modifying a car while you are still making payments on it. You have a financed car, and the concept is the same.
      Except that financed cars don't have a "get out of jail free" card at the end of the payment term where the car can just be given back to the dealer...

      I think it's fair to say that the majority of leased cars are turned in and not bought out. And we all know the OP well enough that this car will likely be turned back in at the end of the lease (or earlier).

      Sorry, but I just don't agree that it's ethical to make warranty-voiding changes to a "rented" car.
      iain

    7. Member saron81's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:44 PM #282
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post

      Am I relying on this as a golden rule? Absolutely not. Will I sue Subaru if I tune the car, the engine blows, and they deny my warranty? Probably not. But it is nice to know that the dealer is mod friendly and will work with me, as opposed to against me, if something happens.
      Glad to see you haven't completely ruled that out.

    8. Member davewg's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:44 PM #283
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      ... You people just like to find things to complain about.
      TCL in a nutshell. Nut house is nutty.
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    9. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:46 PM #284
      I used to be the in the "its okay to tune your leased car camp" until my buddy with a 2.0 Ecoboost Fusion popped his stock engine at 34k miles on a Livernois tune. Ford denied the warranty and Livernois basically blamed Ford.

      Now I'm in the "Good luck with that" camp.

      Chris
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    10. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 12:51 PM #285
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      Except that financed cars don't have a "get out of jail free" card at the end of the payment term where the car can just be given back to the dealer...

      I think it's fair to say that the majority of leased cars are turned in and not bought out. And we all know the OP well enough that this car will likely be turned back in at the end of the lease (or earlier).

      Sorry, but I just don't agree that it's ethical to make warranty-voiding changes to a "rented" car.
      It's not really a "get out of jail free" card. If anything, it's far more stringent than buying a car and trading it in after 3 years. At the end of the lease, I have to put the car back to excellent condition. On a trade-in, the dealership will take it even in a not-so-perfect condition (subject, of course, to a deduction in value).

      Also, a subsequent sale of the car to a purchaser in due course should preserve the warranty to that buyer. When the dealer re-sells the car subject to Subaru's warranty, and the new buyer isn't the one that tuned the car, Subaru still has to honor that warranty.

    11. Member madrussian's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 01:17 PM #286
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      I spent $4,000+ tuning my TTS, which I owned for exactly 12 months, and got basically zero dollars back on that.
      If you would've invested that $4,000 in an index fund, then by the time you're 65, you could've paid cash for the STI & tune and avoided rustling jimmies by tuning a leased car....

    12. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 01:23 PM #287
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      I used to be the in the "its okay to tune your leased car camp" until my buddy with a 2.0 Ecoboost Fusion popped his stock engine at 34k miles on a Livernois tune. Ford denied the warranty and Livernois basically blamed Ford.

      Now I'm in the "Good luck with that" camp.

      Chris
      But how does the lease aspect have any effect on this?

      The result is the same whether or not the car is leased . . . the owner has to pay to repair the engine.

    13. 04-21-2017 01:27 PM #288
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      I used to be the in the "its okay to tune your leased car camp" until my buddy with a 2.0 Ecoboost Fusion popped his stock engine at 34k miles on a Livernois tune. Ford denied the warranty and Livernois basically blamed Ford.

      Now I'm in the "Good luck with that" camp.

      Chris
      Having been down this road (thankfully with no failures), my attitude now is simple:

      I'd rather lease a car that is of a caliber that doesn't have to be modded. A Golf R falls into this category, as does an STI. Right now I am eyeing the new Charger 392 Daytona with a certain degree of lust. Could you modify it? Sure. But it's great enough on it's own that you don't have to.
      Matt
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    14. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 01:33 PM #289
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      But how does the lease aspect have any effect on this?

      The result is the same whether or not the car is leased . . . the owner has to pay to repair the engine.
      I'm not arguing one way or the other, and in the case you describe, there is no difference. However, the tune was in there for 10k miles before it exhibited any signs of failure. It would interesting to see what would have happened should that 10k miles have spread over two owners, hypothetically speaking.

      And I'll tell you, knowing this helped me not even consider leasing an Elantra Sport, which I surely would be tempted to modify.

      Chris
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      04-21-2017 01:45 PM #290
      Only mod I'm planning for my STi as far as actual performance goes is a cat-back exhaust. Everything else will be suspension related if I even decide to go that far.

      Long as this thing has a warranty Cobb tunes and engine mods are no-go for me (unless someone in the DMV knows of a mod friendly dealer in which case let me know)

      Seriously this thing already handles/performs well enough that you would get in trouble on public roads barely pushing it.

    16. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 01:50 PM #291
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      Except that financed cars don't have a "get out of jail free" card at the end of the payment term where the car can just be given back to the dealer...
      yes they do.
      they can be sold or traded in.

      unless there is a catastrophic issue... how you treated the car during the finance period will be unknown to the dealership, and become the next persons issue.
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      04-21-2017 01:59 PM #292
      Was I the only person who thought $19,500 in lease payments on a sub-$40k car seemed high, especially given the supposed resale? I am assuming it's a 36 month and don't know the terms, but $542 seems on the high end since I would assume you got at least a bit off sticker and that the residual isn't garbage...

    18. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 02:10 PM #293
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      Was I the only person who thought $19,500 in lease payments on a sub-$40k car seemed high, especially given the supposed resale? I am assuming it's a 36 month and don't know the terms, but $542 seems on the high end since I would assume you got at least a bit off sticker and that the residual isn't garbage...
      It's not a sub-$40k car. Its retail is $42,200 (it has various STI parts installed at the port).

      The residual is 64%. The APR on the MF is ~4%. They gave me a $2000 discount. Waived Acquisition fee. They do require a $399 doc fee, so add that back in (:roll eyes. Do the math. This was better than the best deal I could get e-maiilng dealers in California.

      But the reality is that I will likely be in a lease "equity" position in about 2 years, because these cars hold their value so well.

      *Edit -- we also have a high sales tax rate in NV of 8.25%. So in actuality, backing out the sales tax, my monthly lease payment is $500.70.

      **Edit Edit -- I'm also pretty sure the port-installed options don't residualize, meaning that 100% of their cost is bundled into the lease cost over 36 months.
      Last edited by SchnellFowVay; 04-21-2017 at 02:14 PM.

    19. Member madrussian's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 02:16 PM #294
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      Was I the only person who thought $19,500 in lease payments on a sub-$40k car seemed high, especially given the supposed resale? I am assuming it's a 36 month and don't know the terms, but $542 seems on the high end since I would assume you got at least a bit off sticker and that the residual isn't garbage...
      it seems high at first read, but its par for what it is... its not a screaming good lease deal that would get a kudos from leasehackr's but there rule of thumb is 1%of MSRP.

      though to Schnell's credit, i don't think any of the cars he was looking at would've really leased well.

      congrats on the ride.

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      04-21-2017 02:17 PM #295
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      It's not a sub-$40k car. Its retail is $42,200 (it has various STI parts installed at the port).

      The residual is 64%. The APR on the MF is ~4%. They gave me a $2000 discount. Waived Acquisition fee. They do require a $399 doc fee, so add that back in (:roll eyes. Do the math. This was better than the best deal I could get e-maiilng dealers in California.

      But the reality is that I will likely be in a lease "equity" position in about 2 years, because these cars hold their value so well.

      *Edit -- we also have a high sales tax rate in NV of 8.25%. So in actuality, backing out the sales tax, my monthly lease payment is $500.70.

      **Edit Edit -- I'm also pretty sure the port-installed options don't residualize, meaning that 100% of their cost is bundled into the lease cost over 36 months.


      Now assh0le, where are the pics???

    21. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 02:29 PM #296
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post


      Now assh0le, where are the pics???
      They drop the car off in 30 minutes!!

    22. Member
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      04-21-2017 02:35 PM #297
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      They drop the car off in 30 minutes!!
      Make sure you don't find any taco wrappers cuz you know they're gonna hoon it over to the drive through for lunch first!

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      04-21-2017 02:38 PM #298
      Any reason you chose to lease this car? Given how good resale is, and the high APR, personally I would have bought the car. Even with their residual I think you'd probably come out ahead if you financed at a low interest rate in terms of dollars spent, even if you sold the car after 3 years.

      I'm sure you have a good reason just curious. Sure, a positive equity situation in a lease is good but if I'm pretty confident the car will hold it's value like that why not take the option of financing for a lower rate?

    24. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      04-21-2017 02:43 PM #299
      Quote Originally Posted by 300_munkeys View Post
      Any reason you chose to lease this car? Given how good resale is, and the high APR, personally I would have bought the car. Even with their residual I think you'd probably come out ahead if you financed at a low interest rate in terms of dollars spent, even if you sold the car after 3 years.

      I'm sure you have a good reason just curious. Sure, a positive equity situation in a lease is good but if I'm pretty confident the car will hold it's value like that why not take the option of financing for a lower rate?
      Sales tax, primarily. In this lease, if I sell it to a dealer or turn it in, I don't ever pay sales tax on 64% of the value of the car.

      If I buy it, I need to pay 100% of the sales tax up front. Sure, if I trade it in thereafter, then I get a sales tax credit, but I'm not sure that is what I will want to do.

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      04-21-2017 02:54 PM #300
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Sales tax, primarily. In this lease, if I sell it to a dealer or turn it in, I don't ever pay sales tax on 64% of the value of the car.

      If I buy it, I need to pay 100% of the sales tax up front. Sure, if I trade it in thereafter, then I get a sales tax credit, but I'm not sure that is what I will want to do.
      Makes sense, depending on the interest rate you could get on a loan. Also for peace of mind.

      I'm annoyed VA doesn't allow the sales tax credit when trading cars in However, we do have a 4% vs 8%+ rate, and max is $550 I believe so I guess it balances out.

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